A 3D Future ?

[Husaria]

Hi All,

In the spirit of fostering debate, I would like to pose the possibility of a future (perhaps far ?) application of a rapidly developing technology: 3D Printing.

In regards to this, I have seen how this technology- printing objects by applying layer upon layer of very fine material (plastic, metal-even food ingredients !) to build-up objects in 3D-is becoming more widespread and accessible to the everyday user i.e. smaller and cheaper machines that could be placed in the home.

It's very easy to find examples of how this process has been used to produce little toy models, amongst more complex tools, so what about what its application into the wargames Hobby ? Is it likely that we could see a world where these machines find their way into the home, as commonly as the t.v and computer has done before them.  And, if so, would the wargamer dispense with the process of ordering figures online, to be despatched as physical items to their home ?

Instead, might the enthusiast simply download the relevant files for the figure they require from the manufacturer and then simply stand back to watch their printer produce them in from of their eyes (of course, assuming the requirement to obtain the basic metal/plastic raw materials from a supplier ); then, (and this is a step I've already seen being done ), the printer could add the appropriate colours to the figure, layer by layer and in the exact places.  Would this result in the actual painting of figures being the preserve of a small band of afficiandoes ? Certainly it would by-pass the postal restrictions on paint !

By no means am I claiming that the above suggestions will happen, but what do others think ? Do these ideas seem completely unrealistic or in 10, 20 years' time, will I be able to print out armies and have them painted by machine in a matter of just days ? And, if this is in any way possible, would it be a good thing ? What might be lost in the hobby by the potential application of this technology ?

Over to you....
Regards to all,
Tim

[Steve J]

Hi Tim,
I've been a designer and modelmaker for 27 years now for my sins and I'll give you my following thoughts on the subject of 3D printing:

- The technology is still very expensive, certainly to get the resolution required for wargames models.
- A lot of the machines that can print at a fine enough level of detail for us wargamers are incredibly unreliable. We had one machine that only built successfully 30% of the time!
- The machines that are reliable cannot print at the resolution I would want as a wargamer.
- The materials used are very expensive.
- The materials used do not have durability of injection moulded parts.
- The materials used require a lot of post processing, requiring additional equipment, chemicals etc.
- You need a good knowledge of computing and data handling to manage the raw data coming in. (We routinely make parts for some of the 28mm boys in the industry and more often than not have to send the data back to them to fix it so that the machine can build said parts).
- Given the above the unit price is prohibitely expensive for one off items.
- For the past 15 yeara or so the manufacturers of the machines have been plying the press with stories of us all having machines in our hourses etc in a few years time. The 'Today' programme on Radio 4 ran such a piece over the Xmas period. Basically these articels are trotted out at regular intervals to keep the share prices up etc. An industry analyst wrote a telling piece on his Blog blowing wide open the myth of 3D printing and its relevance to the home user, talk less of 'prefessionals' such as myself.

So there you have it, one view from inside the industry. Hopefully some of you will find this interesting and informative. Naturally other points of view welcomed...

[FierceKitty]

I am reminded of the great Arthur C. Clarke. One of Clarke's laws ran "When a distinguished but elderly scientist says that something is possible, he is probably right. When he says that something is impossible, he is almost certainly wrong."

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

The idea of printing the terrain for actual battlefields intrigues me.
I suspect a great many wargamers would be shocked at how flat and bare their terrain is compared to real life!

[sebigboss79]

It will come but not in the next 10 years. Having experience with the design (and no it is NOT finished when you are - then you redesign according to printer specs) and process I argue the latter needs severe improvements.

Not to mention that current home printers have neither the quality not the price (1,500 GBP+) to make this a common sight.

The impact on IP (particularly that there is 3D Cameras that plug into software to make a usable 3D model!) cannot even be imagined.

[Squirrel]

3D printing has been around for a while now, and doesn't seem to have advanced much in terms of affordable machines at a worthwhile resolution. There has been much talk on forums about its use in modelling, not just wargaming, but other genres as well, especially railway modelling. The problem is still one of the resolution being nowhere near high enough with out paying huge money.

From what I've seen/read, the most successful use of the technology to far has been producing 'master models', primarily of vehicles, which can then be used to make moulds for production in either resin or metal. These 'masters' still need a lot of preperation to bring them to a standard acceptable to modellers and gamers.

The potential of the technology is huge for modellers, especially if you have skills in 3D cad, but in my opinion, it will be a long time before the machines are there to turn it into a reality.

Cheers,

Kev

[Leon]

We keep an eye on it, but as others have said above, it's going to be a long time before the costs involved come down to a level where it's viable for us as a business.  Currently just the 3D drawing alone would set us back more than a sculptor would charge us, and that's before we've even looked at the production costs of either a one-off master or multiples for retail.  There is a 15mm company using 3D prints for their masters, but I know it takes them at least a day or two to clean up the prints before they are good enough to go into a master mould.

[Fenton]

Must be cheaper to keep Techno chained to the sculpting table and feed him the occasional pot noodle

[Ithoriel]

 Wot? A WHOLE pot noodle!!?? 

[Fenton]

Wot? A WHOLE pot noodle!!?? 

I didnt say how long each one had to last

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Cheaper if you use own brand pots...

[Luddite]

I think its an amazing technology.  Sure its in its infancy, but it of course will get better and will eventually meet the specific requirements of wargamers.

Will we ever see it as ubiquitous, cheap, reliable technology in our homes?  Nope.  OR rather i don't think so.

Imagine this: you have a machine in your utility room that will make any object or machine you require, to an exceptional quality.  This basically makes obsolete almost every manufacturing business supplying the domestic market.

You really think the capitalist system will allow this?  I suspect it will remain niche, and if it ever looks like it might become commonly available it'll go the way of electric cars, and other superior technological developments - bought up and buried by the multinationals who will lose out to it.

[Fenton]

Cheaper if you use own brand pots...

Would that reduce the price of the figures?

[Techno]

Must be cheaper to keep Techno chained to the sculpting table and feed him the occasional pot noodle

For me.....The weird thing about pot noodles is......

Every couple of years or so I get an absolute, and totally irrational craving to eat one.....
So I buy one....eat about the first half inch or so of the 'food'.....and then remember why I don't buy them more often.

Going back to the subject.....

I've seen some very nice 'straight line' models done from really high quality printers......But the price has been fairly astronomical for the master.
Most firms would have to be sure they'd sell hundreds upon hundreds to get their money back.......Or charge a much higher price per model.
Cheers - Phil.

[fateeore]

I am rather skeptical about 3d printing.

They may well have some use in the design process, I seriously doubt that personal printers will be used in the way suggested. One only has to look at way the market in ink printing has developed to see the pitfall, namely the exorbitant price of the ink. I can't remember the last time I used my printer.

And while at the moment those promoting the technology are able to get generally favourable stories into the media - if one ignores the bogus story about the printed gun - if the technology takes off, and becomes a threat to the big business interests who pay the bills for the media through advertising, it will not be long before scary stories about health issues start appearing.

There is also something rather odd about the discussion of 3d printing with regard to wargaming. Forums relating to the hobby are packed with rants about price, and there is an accepted implications that cheap is good. Yet on this subject the law of magic appears to kick in. I went to a site that prints out designs to have a look at the things on offer and was rather shocked that a 1/300th, decently designed, tank was on sale at £18 plus postage.

I must be getting old, because I would rather the manufacturer did the manufacturing - rather like when I fancy a bacon sandwich I am happy to pay the farmer, the abbatoir and the shop to deal with the pig - and each of them make a enough to feed themselves and their families. So much of the brave new world offered by 3d printing proponents appears concerned with cutting out the supply chain, and focusing the profit entirely with the designer - and the company selling you the refill cartridges for the printer. Which is good for them, but rather questionable to the wider society - rather like the way Supermarkets have draoned the high street of all but pound/charity shops, and coffee pedlars.