To the Last Gaiter Button Bat Rep

[mollinary]

Fenton,

If you are refering to the Age of Valor variation of Brigade level Fire and Fury, I will certainly be buying it, and giving it a try. It should fit my basing pretty well.   But I will also be working on my own version of Regimental Fire and Fury, carrying on from where I left off at the end of the Austro Prussian War.

Marcus, thanks for the explanation, I  thought the bases must represent more than a battalion (the basic unit in the TTLGB rules).  So so you give the regiment bases 1 point per 250men, to replicate the rule strengths?   I assume the cavalry are one base per regiment as well, and the guns one per battery?    I was wondering how you keep the damage inflicted by various forms of combat all in synch!     My recollection on organisation was that basic divisional organisation was the same on both sides, each division containing two brigades, each of which contained two regiments of three battalions. The diffference was:
i) in the light troops (Chasseurs/Jagers) where the French had one battalion per division and the Prussians one per corps,;
ii) in the artillery where the Prussians had 2 heavy and 2 light batteries per division, plus a corps reserve of c6 more batteries, usually 2 heavy, 2 light and 2 Horse batteries. The French had 2 4pdr batteries and Mitrailleuse battery per division, and a corps reserve of about the Prussian size;
iii) in battalion size the Prussian being close to 1,000 strong, the French very variable between 600-800;
iv) The number of divisions in a corps. The Prussians standardising on 2, the French having from 2-4, with Marshal' corps having four.
Regards,

Mollinary

[Fenton]

Thats the one I was thinking of...The only thing that puts be off the period and its a silly reason is the short time the wars  it lasted, though I could see some interesting what if's etc

[Leman]

Currently basing up 10mm Austrians for the RE&F rules. I am using 30x20mm for infantry and 30x30mm for both cavalry and artillery. Infantry have four figures per base, cavalry three and artillery one gun per base. This system allows for a good representation of formations, but requires a shed load of infantry figures, as a battalion is twelve bases,  and a large table (10'x6'). I will post some photos when I have textured the bases.

[Leman]

Don't be put off by time frames. More large battles in the first 6 weeks of the FPW than the first two years of the ACW.

[mollinary]

DP, sounds great! Can't wait to see the pictures.

Mollinary

[Fenton]

Would the same figures be useful for the Austro Prussian Wars as well?

[Leman]

The Austrians I'm doing are for 1866 (can also be used in 1864) i.e. they are in grey greatcoat. 1859 Austrians wore the white kittel jacket.

[Fenton]

thanks guys you have peaked my interest..Can you recommend a good book to begin with ...a Dummies guide so to speak?

[Leman]

There is so much more out there now than when I started doing FPW using 'They Died for Glory'. A real get you started primer is Bruce Weigle's 1870 rules, which summarise the war, its weapons and tactics, as well as providing most of the orders of battle and 14 very detailed scenarios. The unbeaten single volume history is Michael Howard's 'The Franco-Prussian War', but if you like your history detailed with lots of contemporary illustrations then try Quintin Barry's two volume history, 'The Franco Prussian War - The Campaign of Sedan' and 'The Franco-Prussian War - After Sedan'.

[Shedman]

And even though it is fiction Zola's Debacle is worth a read. He interviewed many FPW veterans.

[Hertsblue]

The Austrians I'm doing are for 1866 (can also be used in 1864) i.e. they are in grey greatcoat. 1859 Austrians wore the white kittel jacket.

So I thought too, but many of the illustrations show 1866 Austrian infantry in white and some eye-witness accounts speak of "white-clad masses".

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

I'm still trying to work out how best to set up FPW in 10mm to both explore lower level tactics and larger forces.  I think I am going to go for a scheme that allows me to build, at lowest level, six bases per Prussian/German company (probably 4/base) so roughly 1:10 scale with command bases (so probably RF&F 1866 conversion scale), moving up to 1 base per company so roughly 1:60 with 48 bases per division.   Imperial French would be a bit trickier.

Regards

Edward

[mollinary]

So I thought too, but many of the illustrations show 1866 Austrian infantry in white and some eye-witness accounts speak of "white-clad masses".

This is a big problem for  a lot of periods before photographs, and many since.  Illustrators fall into many categories, and not all were present on campaign.  This leads to searching of archives for illustrations to base new material on, and where this fails, I suppose, guesswork.  In 1866 the Austrian army had been famous to the world as the "Whitecoats" for 150 years, and had fought as such in Italy in 1859.  Not surprising perhaps that these were the images that illustrators produced.  Remember a famous contemporary image (for a German postcard I think) of fighting on the Western Front (1914 I think) had red coated Bristish infantry in Bearskins resisting German cavalry!   The eye witness accounts are more difficult to square.  Those that are done for newpapers might well fall into the 'artistic licence' category, giving people images they will recognise easily, and that allow the two sides to be differentiated. There are also other aspects of uniform which might have given the impression of white masses (The Austrian Heavy cavalry wore huge white greatcoat/mantles during the campaign). Individual accounts, eg in letters home, must be given more credence, but still probably need a closer look, rather than simply saying, "I saw white figures which identified them as Austrian" and not looking for other possible explanations". In more informal settings, in camp or bivouac, I am sure most soldiers were in shirts rather than their greatcoats, for example. Finally, as a thought, I seem to recall from somewhere that the Austrians were instructed not to take the white kittel with them on campaign. What is not clear to me is whether it is possible that some of those troops actually permanently based in Bohemia might have worn them.  Still, mostly speculation, interested if anyone has anything firmer to go on.

Mollinary

[mollinary]

Edward,

Sounds very much where I am going on this.  I have the Prussians and the Austrian Army of the North at the 1:60 scale, suitable for Trapped Like a Fox or TTLGB.  From them I can (and have) built up Corps for the early actions of 1866 using an interim scale of 1:20 so three bases to a Prussian company.  I am also planning on going to the full RFF scale of 1:10 to do more or less brigade/division level scenarios for refighting parts of Koniggratz, like the Swiepwald or Problus.  As you say, the French are trickier to track down.  I have most of the army in 1:60 scale, three bases to a battalion.  At 1:10 that would be about 18 bases, which might work.  My middle scale, with nine bases, might be a bit trickier.  I need to get some playtesting in!    I also have, but so far have never used, about 100+ skirmish bases, each with two figures instead of four, for each of the armies.  These might allow for a more accurate representation of the firing line. Anyway, I am looking forward to experimenting.

Andrew

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

I spent some time reading accounts and the French need to be able to deploy by half battalion (example at Gravelotte pushed out to skirmish - can't recall the regiment off hand) so I think there need to be an even number of stands if you aim to break down the battalion on the table.  The rapid fluctuation of French numbers doesn't help.

Have you read Petain's On Infantry article from 1911 where he compares French and Prussian regulations and uses parts of Mars le Tour as an example?

Regards

Edward