How close to the Netherlands is Romania?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi

I was looking at doing some Dutch marines for China



and I was wondering which Romanian Infantry would be best. Do they have puttees or gaiters? If they have puttees then I could use WW1 British Vickers and Lewis with head swaps to round them out.

Thanks for any info

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Very close, I fact almost entirely interchangeable.
Flames Of War have done it, have a look at their PDF.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/Early-war/Netherlands-1940.pdf

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi ML

Thanks for the reply, I was just wondering how close the Pendraken figures were. I remember now that I did find some pics and the infantry have short gaiters rather than puttees and a blanket roll as well:-

http://10mmpatrioticwar.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/romanian-battalion.html

Maybe I can use the winter equipment types to get rid of the blanket roll.

If anybody has any pics that would be much appreciated. 

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Steve J]

Oh God not more ideas for AVBCW and Early WWII forces .

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hello Steve J

Oh God not more ideas for AVBCW and Early WWII forces .

Always got ideas, in fact I'm renowned for it - my friends are always shaking their heads in wonder and saying I'm full of it 

Now have I told you about the flying saucer crashing and the aliens in the Gobi Desert fighting White Russian remnants..........

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Steve J]

Always got ideas, in fact I'm renowned for it - my friends are always shaking their heads in wonder and saying I'm full of it

Sounds familiar .

Now have I told you about the flying saucer crashing and the aliens in the Gobi Desert fighting White Russian remnants..........

Hmm sounds good for use with 'In Her Majesty's Name'...

[Sunray]

[quote author=GrumpyOldMan link=topic=8589.msg93782#msg93782 date=13

and I was wondering which Romanian Infantry would be best. Do they have puttees or gaiters? If they have puttees then I could use WW1 British Vickers and Lewis with head swaps to round them out.



Hi Vic, I can confirm that Dutch Marines wore puttees.  With regard to head swaps - I wonder if it would be possible to cast a range of sculptured heads in 10mm? 

[Ace of Spades]

Hi GrumpyOldMan,

I don't want to spoil the fun but the helmet you're looking for was introduced, if I'm not mistaken, in 1927 while the Dutch involvement in China ended in 1923...
The link below shows the uniforms worn by the Dutch Marines in China during their deployment there. The lower link shows the development of the uniform through the centuries up to 1940.

http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/sites/strategion/contents/i005604/13-mariniers-27-28.jpg
http://collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004933.html

Hope this is of some assistence.

Cheers,
Rob

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hello AoS

Thanks for the reply and links, you can never have enough good links  .

I think the Dutch marines (from this page http://chinamarine.org/Shanghai/1937.aspx ) were brought in as a response to concerns on Dutch interests with the Japanese invasion of Shanghai in 1937, rather than being permanently stationed.

Below is the text from a 1937 newspaper report ( http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/25421627 ) on the Shanghai situation and Dutch concerns.

HOLLAND CONCERNED I

THE.HAGUE, August 10.

Holland ls concerned at tho possible reaction of the Far Eastern conflict on Dutch interests. The Minister for Colonies has postponed his holidays, and the Premier (Dr. Colijn), who is in Switzerland, is iii daily contact with The Hague about the despatch of war- ships to China from the Dutch. East Indies.

It looks like at least one ship was sent and its marines disembarked to protect Dutch interests in Shanghai.

Besides if you think this too far from reality, wait until I have Czech soldiers taking over the Austro-Hungarian concession in Tientsin after WW1 - have to get the 35Ts and 38ts there somehow 

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Ace of Spades]

Okay, now I understand! I thought you wanted to do something with the Dutch involvement after the Boxer Rebellion, so sorry...
The Marines sent to Shanghai indeed wore the uniform you're referring to in the pictures. Uniforms of the Romanians will look close enough and even the cartridgeboxes might do (even though they should be wider) but the rest of the equipment like canteen, gasmaskbag etc. are really too far of though a bit of putty should give some acceptable results...

The ship sent to Shanghai by the way was the destroyer HMS Van Galen, built in 1929.

Looking forward to see your Austro-Hungarian tanks rolling through China... Who are you gonna let them fight?

Cheers!
Rob

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hello AoS

Thanks for the information on HMS Galen,
using my short sightedness I think I can use the Zhong Shan as a proxy and come up with a scenario with the Dutch marines fighting their way from the destroyer to rescue citizens and get back, I think I can even come up with air support from a passable Fokker CVII-W from a diecast plane I have with some tail modification


You are permitted to be horrified by my slapdash attitude 

Looking forward to see your Austro-Hungarian tanks rolling through China... Who are you gonna let them fight?

Cheers!
Rob

Just about anybody they want to!! .

Have rejigged the NPC reaction tables from Pony Wars to take into account perceived friendships etc. Just now working on a friend/enemy test grid. I thought of getting lots of Tomytec building for any urban setting but that way led to poverty. Might have a look at print-yourself card buildings.

Cheers

Vic/GrumpyOldMan

[Ace of Spades]

Hey Vic, whatever makes you happy! 
I guess an American Destroyer Escort would come closer in terms of armament but if the Zhong Shan is what you got then that's what you use.
I find it quite okay if people cut some corners creating something close enough and have fun with them. I Always end up with endless conversions (or plans at least) and thus never get to playing... ah well
Have fun, if I can help you out with any specific info just let me know.

By the way; the post by mad lemmey contained a link to the FoW pages on Dutch troops in 1940. It has quite a long article on the fight around the town of Mill, which happens to be my hometown! The tekst is quite okay (not a 100%, but hey!) so if you ever want to play something Blitzkrieg with German armoured trains just let me know 

Cheers,
Rob

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hello Rob

Big fan of armoured trains, coming up with a generic one now.

Read about the battle in Mill, your home town. Sounds very exciting, do you ever get tempted to play a game on the display in the old Fire Station? I  know I would....



Or have you already?

I'm assuming you know about the vehicles available from Tasmodels and Fairy Kikaku.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[Steve J]

You are permitted to be horrified by my slapdash attitude

I have no problem with this as it is nigh on impossible, certainly at this scale, to have ranges to cover every conflict. If it is close enough for you, then it's fine by me.

Big fan of armoured trains, coming up with a generic one now.

I've started scratch building one but work has got in the way of any progress of late.

BTW, that is a great display table . The following website is really useful for the Dutch conflict:

http://www.waroverholland.nl/

[Ace of Spades]

Howdy folks,

Actually... I was involved in the construction of the table... It started out as a wargaming project together with a friend of mine (Ludwig van Dijk) who actually did at least 90% of the work on the table and who also did a lot of research on the whole history. My meager contributions were limited to the armoured train, dutch artillery and motorcycle Hussars (all conversions and scratchbuilds) and a part of the Dutch infantry involved. So yes, I played on it; several times! Usually I played Dutch and kept the Germans at bay. What i used to do was wait till the armoured train returned towards Germany to re-establish communications, let it pass through the line (to great surprise of Ludwig!) and then close the railroad line for good. Thereby locking the German batallion behind the lines and destroy it by driving it towards the artillery positions ith my arriving Motorcycle Hussars; by the time german re-inforcements arrived in numbers before the canal the threat in my back was annihilated and they had to slug it out with the casemates. A fairly comfortable position until all German regimental Anti-tank guns started to arrive... that usually did the job for the germans 

Even so; the line in my hometown is still as good as intact (minus the cast iron HMG casemates that were blown up by the germans to get the iron they needed). The casemates still bear the evidence of the heavy fighting and damage by 3.7 PAK and MG's is still clearly visible. penetrating hits through the armoured shields included... We also spoke to a lot of Dutch veterans that fought here on the 10th of May and their stories were really interesting and cleared a lot of questions that we all had. The biggest factory we had in those days in town for example burned down on the 10th of may and the german were blamed for torching it. That never seemed logical to me and when we spoke to a veterean (Kornet De Zeeuw) who commanded one of the infantry guns we realized it was his crew who accidentally set the factory on fire. They were supposed to shoot at the church steeple to keep German observers and Machine guns out and the factory showed up just behind the church when he showed us the position where his gun was positioned. That's historical research at it's best!
If you're ever in the vicinity contact me and I'll be honoured to give you the Grand Tour!

I idn't know of any vehicles being available by the companies you mentioned but I'll have a look, sounds great!

Also the link Steve J mentioned is very good; nice pic's of the casemates around Mill; I think I could even give the correct casematenumbers for those not yet given The story on the armoured train seems incorrect as there were two trains, an armoured one and a transport train but overall it looks good!

Cheers,
Rob