Modern Kit

[Rob]

We've been around this subject a good many times, like here:

http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7043.15.html

Seems to me that Mart is chafing at the bit, but Leon/Dave are holding back. Could it be time for another kickstarter like effort?

I see it a little different, I think it's probably more a matter of sculpt/design resources lacking to do the work rather than the will to do it. For the Mongol kick-starter it seems to me Phil was primed and ready to go as soon as it was approved. I'm not sure it would be helpful to do a kick-start if there is no one available to do the work.

All of the current sculptor/designers (I'm guessing) seem to be committed to existing plans and projects. So we have to be patient and wait for the resource to become free or hope Dave and Leon are able to get extra resource (Dave has said earlier he is trying somebody out on 3 modern vehicles).

In the mean time this thread is brilliant market research for Pendraken to gauge the level of interest. And gives us the opportunity to influence the order/direction of the forthcoming goodies. It is of course also frustrating because I want modern tanks and infantry now! 

[fsn]

Tell me about it. I've been quietly and politely   asking for a Centurion for about a decade and a half, and the most recent reason I can't order a dozen is because (I think I read this right) that the Dark Lord has been approving so much other stuff (LOA I'd guess) with ponderous nods of his magnificent head, that he's hurt his neck.

I think we may have to invent "A Very British Coup against Margaret Thatcher" as a period before we can get any more modern stuff.  Actually, that could be quite fun: The Scargill Scottish, Ken Livingstone Lancers, The Red Robbo Rangers (light infantry 'cos they were issued British Leyland vehicles) ...  

[Ithoriel]

Isn't "The Battle of Trafalgar 1984" scheduled to be a game at Smoggycon?

Too busy lazy to go look it up

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

FSN - bear in mind that unless it involves an obscure, cowardly, vicious unit lead by the prototype for Flashman, although a century earlier, and the unit wears very silly hats in an minor foreign war - YOU GOT NO CHANCE.

IanS

I HAVE SEEN THE CENTURION.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

SO HAVE I!

[Rob]

I HAVE HELD IT AND DROOLED ON IT 

[Rob]

It seems to me we have definite views on vehicles but are a little fluffy over the time periods or the wars to cover. 

The modern period (post WW2 to now?) has few major hot wars other than Arab v Israeli, and these were brief encounters as the Arabic side was never able to sustain a war after it lost the initial battles because they didn't make their kit and their main supplier was incapable of resupplying during these conflicts.

The other fascinating opportunity with the modern period is to "What-If" the periods. The periods I see as potential and realistic what-if periods are (without any of the why they would be interesting reasons):

Late 1945 East against the West:
It's what some of the Germans were hoping for. The reality was that the Soviet Union and the West were truly exhausted and incapable.

Mid 1950's and Korean War:
The reality was it was still too near the end of WW2 exhaustion

Late 50's Suez: Even the West wasn't united with the US stabbing France and UK in the back.

Early 1960s, Cuban missile crisis, Bay of Pigs, potential invasion of Cuba by the US being countered by the Soviets moving into West Berlin:
Joseph Stalin said at the close of WW2, "Wait 15-20 years and we'll go again" (or something like that) but he died and Mr Khrushchev was in charge. To me this is the nearest we ever have come to WW3. However, the certainty of a nuclear exchange made both sides shrink from the precipice (thank god).

Late 60's and Six Day War:
If the Arab states had had more staying power it might have escalated but they were destroyed very quickly.

Early 1970s and Yom Kippur War:
Oil crisis and the West in trouble. Personally I think this was the Soviet Unions best chance of winning an invasion of the West.

Early to mid 1980's:
No real reason for this period other than realistically it was the last time the Soviets would have the strength to attack.

1990's to the early 2000's Armageddon:
This whole period potentially could kick off with a Middle East/Iran/Pakistan conflict with any of the former East and West enemies getting involved. Basically an excuse to fight any modern army against any other.

My own personal favourites would be the early 60's and early eighties. Feel free to rip me to shreds here and come up with different timings. 


Cheers, Rob 

[OldenBUA]

I see it a little different, I think it's probably more a matter of sculpt/design resources lacking to do the work rather than the will to do it.

I may be mistaken, but I think it's also a matter of budget. Mart could have the time (and inclination) to start on this, but Leon/Dave rightly think that he should finish what they have planned first. After all, they're only going to pay him once. Maybe a kickstarter type thing could change this, as it would mean a bigger budget for the sculptors, if Pendraken is guaranteed a certain amount of new sales?

Then again, new sculpts aren't everything, as they also need master moulding, production casting and so on (are you listening fsn?) And we haven't seen the final result of the Mongol project, so it's probably too early to start another one right now anyway.

Also, the biggest problem with expanding the modern ranges is the vast scope. Many different wars, many vehicles, many variants. So I believe that any project should first limit the scope. Anything that builds on the existing ranges would be good, Korea (1950) and 6-day war being good examples. Early eighties need a lot more to fill the gaps.

[fsn]

FSN - bear in mind that unless it involves an obscure, cowardly, vicious unit lead by the prototype for Flashman, although a century earlier, and the unit wears very silly hats in an minor foreign war - YOU GOT NO CHANCE.

Prince Andrew Naval Brigade? Dressed by Fergie?

Then again, new sculpts aren't everything, as they also need master moulding, production casting and so on (are you listening fsn?)

I just want the Centurion to go into production so I can do some Korean war. Sorry. 

[OldenBUA]

The modern period (post WW2 to now?) has few major hot wars

Why only major wars? There are all the conflicts associated with decolonization, in Africa and elsewhere. A good selection of modern Soviet kit and WW2 left overs will go a long way here.

[mart678]

WE could always do what they did for the Mongols ?

[barbarian]

I think it's all a matter of budget.
If they have the money, they'll find the sculptors and the time to cast (they can pay an extra).
I think a What-if-Hot-WAR in the 80's could sell (see Arma 2 video game) or ultra modern (ASTAN).

It's always the money. ;(

[Leon]

It is basically the money.  We already throw around £10k per year into design and moulding, and it's quite a big chunk of our resources.  We try and push more each month, but then there's nothing left to actually get a wage...  

Another not-Kickstarter might work, but it would be more difficult than the Mongol one.  Firstly, we'd need to decide on a period and what would need doing.  Then we'd need to check that Mart had enough time at his end to produce the vehicles.  If infantry are also required, then we need to make sure that Phil's got the time as well, and allow a longer length of time for things to be checked over and sent between the two of them (ie. guns by Mart need crew from Phil, etc.)  And then finally, plastic masters require a low-temp mould, so they would need to be sent away, which then has a knock-on effect on when the finished item would be ready.

[fsn]

What would be the difference to Pendraken between not-kickstarting a mechanised army (e.g. 1980's Soviet) and not-kickstarting a pre-mechanised army such as the Byzantines?

[Techno]

I'm certainly up for doing some modern infantry types...
Cheers - Phil