AWI - boring (?)

[maciek]

Because of plenty of superb figures available, I considered starting AWI.
But after quick read through battles descriptions I found it very boring to game.

Where is the fun in AWI ? (apart from skirmish games)
On the one side you get fully proffesional army (or at least 80% of them are proffesionals).
On the other, militia that don't want to fight. In one battle they amazed whole world by discharging two volleys before run to safety  or regulars that lack bayonets in earlier years.

Cavalry don't exist or is so weak that acts as scouts and pickets.
Battles are resolved by British bayonet attack. Please remind me if any US troop resisted hand to hand combat (on the battalion level, beacuse I dont count melees involving 20 people in the swamp).

Please, convince me that this period is worth the effort of painting figures.

Maciek

[Dazza]

3 good reasons :


1st Bn, 71st Foot.


16th Light Dragoons.


Von Ditfurth Fusiliers (Hessians)

Also, its cheap... ( bloody great sculpting )  you dont really have to field big armies.. and you could always fight your own AWI and change history (rid the world of the yanks :p )

"For King and Country!!"

[nikharwood]

And read this:



If Urban doesn't convince you that this is worth fighting, I'll be surprised. And Bob Barnetson's Tea for Two (Warmaster variant) ruleset, published by Wargames Journal, scopes out some core battles brilliantly for the table (email me if you want a copy)

[FierceKitty]

Have to agree; I love SYW, but can see little appeal in 18th century without cuirassiers or hussars and such limited infantry quality. Even though the Yanks are so clearly in the right, for the last time in history.

[lentulus]

Even though the Yanks are so clearly in the right

As a Canuck of (partially) loyalist stock, I can't really agree with that.

[Jim Ando]

How did we lose the war if we were so good ?.

Jim

[lentulus]

How did we lose the war if we were so good ?.

Jim

Those dastardly French.

[nikharwood]

Quite...not to mention those dastardly politicians "back home", the in-fighting within the army seniority, or the carnal charms of American lovelies.

No, really...check the figures 

[Zbigniew]

I dont know, I never tried playing AWI. I love redcoats, but I always prefered FIW with all those Indians and canoes, rangers and scalping . And for that matter my SYW British can be also used in many places in the world Europe, India, Carribean and such...

[Grenadier]

Because of plenty of superb figures available, I considered starting AWI.
But after quick read through battles descriptions I found it very boring to game.

Where is the fun in AWI ? (apart from skirmish games)
On the one side you get fully proffesional army (or at least 80% of them are proffesionals).
On the other, militia that don't want to fight. In one battle they amazed whole world by discharging two volleys before run to safety  or regulars that lack bayonets in earlier years.

Cavalry don't exist or is so weak that acts as scouts and pickets.
Battles are resolved by British bayonet attack. Please remind me if any US troop resisted hand to hand combat (on the battalion level, beacuse I dont count melees involving 20 people in the swamp).

Please, convince me that this period is worth the effort of painting figures.

Maciek

For all the reasons you specify above.  Also, if you must stay in the 18th c, it's a wonderful break from the mass conflicts in Europe, more personal, more detail, cheaper, and a lot of fun picking off British officers while they cry "no fair!"

[clibinarium]

Personally I fell in love with the AWI when I read a book in primary school that had loads of pictures of what must have been the retreat from Concord. I assume but don't remember, it must have been a simple version of Johnny Tremaine. I was lining my green army men up in ranks the next day.

I think I'll always like the period for that reason (and God knows sculpting the figures has tested that love!), but I do think it has lots going for it. If you, like me, hate painting horses, then its a God send. It encompasses large battles down to small actions, naval landings, and has lots of variation in uniforms. Plus you still get to use indians and rangers.  Not many SYW battles can be done placing every present unit on the table, but its possible for most AWI ones. Plus in 10mm you can manage to do battles in 1:10.

The militia can be fragile, but after a while the continentals can go toe to toe with the British regulars. The British are better, but usually outnumbered so the battles are not foregone conclusions. To get the best out of it the level at which the units fight has to be more intimate, eg volley by volley, rather than "these troops have been in a firefight for the last 15 minutes" approach of big battle rules. I think of the AWI as SYW light.

[maciek]

All you have said is not enough to convince me.
I'm afraid, that my AWI battle will last for half an hour only, for most of milicia it will end after first salvo (and some units won't even fire this one salvo). And the whole battle would be resolved by one British attack.
Also, without going to skirmish level I wont' be able "to pick off British officers".

And for clibinarium, it's Pawel Chrzanowski, not me, who hates painting horses. I love it. And I like the way, the cavalry decides the outcome of big battles in WSS and SYW. 

To get the best out of it the level at which the units fight has to be more intimate, eg volley by volley

Maybe this way I'll find it interesting.

BTW, what rules do you recommend for AWI ? Black Powder ? British Grenadier ? Anything else ?

[goat major]

right so i'm an AWI-ophile so i'm biased ....

I must admit that i was drawn into the period by the look of it: fantastic British Uniforms, lovely American Flags, colourful units (indians yey!), wild terrain.

A secondary bonus for me was the low horse count (i hate painting horses!)

ok but that wasnt your question....

I think the attractions as a gaming period are:

Small armies give some real advantages;
- You can actually do real battles and still afford to feed your family.
- You get lots of room to manouevre (and at 10mm you can definitely have your troops get 'lost' in the wilderness of a 6 x 4 table!)
- Many of the battles actually feel like wargames style "table top teasers" where you can really make objectives, personalisation, random events etc work

Tactical options are interesting. The opposing armies are quite different and must make the most of their strengths and weaknesses.  Militia, continentals, light infantry, loyalists, rifles, British Elites, fortified positions, indians, river crossings, surprise attacks, inclement weather, naval support all play a part. True a bayonet charge is a wonderful thing but it didn't always work for the Brits - overconfidence and ill-discipline can always lead to a Bunker Hill....

Rules that emphasis command and control bring out the best. A number of battles have the combatants trying out quite complex plans but struggling to coordinate flanking marches etc. Tarleton's lack of a command structure or a true reserve didnt help him at all at Cowpens....

Probably campaigns add an awful lot (or structured scenarios). In many battles the American objectives will be for the army to survive intact. If the scenarios are all about going toe to toe each time then the American player is going to get a bit depressed....

Are the Americans difficult to win with ? I dont think so but the scenarios need to be right. In an even points 'competition' style game perhaps so. But good scenario design can easily even this out. If you look at the actual  battles then there was often a compensating factor
- Outnumbering (Saratoga, Guilford Courthouse)
- Surprise attack (Trenton, Germantown)
- Fortified positions (New York)
- Well prepared deployment (Cowpens)
- British Objectives to 'escape' (Monmouth)
- Poor British deployment (Germantown)


ok maybe all that hasn't convinced you. Just look at the figures though..... how can you say no  

[goat major]

BTW, what rules do you recommend for AWI ? Black Powder ? British Grenadier ? Anything else ?

I'm using British Grenadier. For me it gives a real strong period feel and has two factors that help make the battles work as they should


- A proper command structure utilising Brigades which limit your options if your structure is wrong
- Disruption points. Some people dont like these since they slow the game down. Which they do. But thats the point - the Brits cant just walk up, climb over a fence, loose off a few volleys, take a few hits and then charge with bayonets and win. Troops need constant attention to make sure they are well formed and ready for the job. This would be way too much to manage in a large SYW battle but at this level it is spot on.