Suggestions on Basing for FPW and APW using 1866/70

[Friedland]

Hello Folks,

Just received my Pendraken order of some rather excellent Austrians for the APW, and can't wait to get stuck into them as my Summer project.

At the same time, I made an order from an online bookseller for my copies of both 1866 and 1870 Grand Tactical Rules. The latter of which arrived yesterday.

The thing that leaves me pondering is what basing system to use. The 1870 book suggests only 3 infantry figures per stand in 10mm with 3 stands to a regiment. Which seems a bit low surely when in 6mm they're suggesting 14 per stand (with one stand classed as a regiment)? Wouldn't that only give me nine figures per regiment in 10mm?

I was considering maybe 4 figures per stand measuring either 20mm x 15mm or 30mm x 10mm. So three stands to a regiment.

I know that the use of close order mass columns was becoming less popular, but guess the slightly larger base and wider spacing would still look appropriate.

I also thought of using 4 or 3 figures per base for jaegers and chasseurs.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Hertsblue]

The question to ask is - are base sizes specified in the rules? If the answer is "no" than it obviously doesn't matter and you can use whatever you like. If the answer is "yes" then the next question is - does the number of figures on the base have any bearing on the game-mechanisms? Again, if the answer is "no" then you can go your own way. I would recommend, however, that you choose a figure-scale (e.g. 1 figure represents 20 men, or 50 men, or 100) and stick to it. That way the sizes of the various units will remain proportional to their prototypes.   

[Friedland]

Thanks Herts. I'm a bit further through the 1870 Rules now and it emphasizes stands rather than figures on them. I'm going for 4 infantry figures per base in most likely 30 x 10 (I think aesthetically they look a bit nicer too). The 1866 set has also turned up and they're suggesting the same - main thing is there's an addition of 'fire points' along with combat points to reflect the difference in Breech loaders and Muzzle loaders.

[Shedman]

I've got the 1859 & 1870 rule books - I use the basing and OOBs but not the rules themselves

I have 10 figures on a 40 x 30mm base to represent a battalion - 8 for light troops & 4 for cavalry

[Leman]

30x30mm can look pretty good. 1866/70 excellent source books but the games take hours to play. I am going to look at 1866 using the modified Regimental Fire and Fury rules in the Wargaming in History Vol.8 book on the Austro-Prussian War. The guys below are French:

[Friedland]

Nice photo DP.

We've played a few games on Hex terrain with slight changes to the rules. It definitely speeds things up, as you just have to count hexes rather than constantly measure.

I've based up an entire Austrian corps this evening for APW (with plenty of figures to spare for a second). Before falling absolutely over the edge into mental instability, I made another change to the figure/base ratio and sizing. Single line infantry on 40mm x 15mm, 4 figures per base. I tried 30mm frontage but wasn't happy with the way they were almost shoulder to shoulder. 40mm both looks and feels better. It also makes them easier to paint on their stands.

I know from reading the background material that it's important not to think of formations or tactics to be identical to their Napoleonic counterparts. The Konnigratz book by Gordon Craig seems to suggest that quite often columns were just references to large bodies of men moving forward, with gaps opening and closing as the Austrian's attempted to charge in using their 'Stosstaktik'.

[mollinary]

Friedland,

Sorry I have only just caught up with this thread.  I think the answer to the basing question depends on what level of formation each base is designed to represent. It sounds as if you want to represent one battalion with one base, and to use four figures on it.  At this level, 1 figure equals c 200-250 real men, so it is problematic to show tactical formations with any real accuracy - it becomes a question of what looks right to you.  The Prussians fought usually with a very thick firing line, followed up by company columns a couple of hundred yards back. To make this look right you would probably need to go for a Volley and Bayonet style regimental base, which would allow you 12 figures, perhaps four in a loose line at the front, and two groups of four, two deep at the back.  For the Austrians, their attack columns were pretty tightly packed, but usually only 6-8 deep.   So if it were my preference I would go for a tighter formation for Austrians than Prussians (more figures on the base?). If your copy of Bruce Weigle's 1866 arrives he sets out the formations very clearly, and some quite clever ways of reproducing them.  All my figures are based in fours on a 25mm frontage with a 20mm depth. This allows me to do multi base units, which gives a greater chance of reproducing tactical formations.    That said, all these are personal choices, it is a great period, and I hope you find a rule set and basing system that suits you. 

Mollinary

[Chad]

Friedland

For APW Western Theatre I will be using an approx. figure scale of 60:1, basing 4 figures 2-ranks deep on 20 x 20mm bases, with battalions of 12 to 16 figures.

I am also doing Franco-Austrian 1859 at 100:1 scale, with French basing 6 figures in 2 ranks per battalion (30x20mm) and Austrian 8 figures in 2 ranks per battalion (40x20mm).

Would love to do a smaller figure ratio but painting time available and cost make it impractical.

Chad

[tschuma]

I am mounting my on .875in (22.25mm) square bases for Fire and Fury.  This way I can play Brigade or Regiment level.  I also have the 1866 and 1870 rule books and they are a great resource.

Tom

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Not commented thus far as mine are based for a different rule set (3"x3") but more is good, as it allows mini dioramas.
Last night As I was painting ming I found a Bavarian officer, pointing one way, looking another, no longer standing on the front line but behind the back rank berating slackers!

[mollinary]

Last night As I was painting ming

Campbell or the Merciless?   

Mollinary

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Merciless

[mollinary]

This is an exhausted gibber as to progress on basing my entirely Pendraken Austrian North Army for 1866, loosely based for "Trapped like a Fox" but re-usable for our own RF&F Variant. 175 Battalions of Line Infantry, each of four bases of four figures, plus a separate single officer, complete.  28 Battalions of Jägers, each of  four bases of four figures, plus a separate officer and a separate bugler figure, complete. 49 squadrons of Cuirassiers, each of three figures, complete.  55 squadrons of Uhlans, each of three figures, complete.   50 squadrons of mounted Hussars, each of three figures, complete. 10 squadrons of mounted Dragoons, each of three figures, complete. 16 bases of dismounted Hussars, 4 of dismounted Dragoons, all of three figures each, 5 horse holder bases, all complete.  26 artillery bases with four gunners, 63 artillery bases with three gunners, complete.  22 limbers,  8 caissons, 12 wagons, complete.     105 bases of line infantry Skirmishers, each of two figures,  still to be gritted and flocked.  1 Corps command base of five figures, complete.  4 infantry brigade command bases, each of two figures, complete. 1 cavalry division command base of three figures, complete. 2 cavalry brigade command bases of two figures each, complete.   That just leaves one army command base, one artillery command base, six corps command bases, four cavalry division bases, twenty nine infantry brigade bases, and nine cavalry brigade bases still to be gritted and flocked!  Oh, and I NEED THOSE ROCKETS!!!   NEED!!  NEEEEEED!   Nurse!    Nurse!    Aaghhhhhh!   

Mollinary

Mollinary

[Le Manchou]

I use 40 per 40 with 16 miniatures for infantry battalions, 8 miniatures for chasseurs/jagers and 6 for cavalry half-regiment, 40 per 20 deep for artillery batteries.

[mollinary]

My infantry bases are 25mm wide by 20mm deep, cavalry and artillery are 30mm square.


Mollinary