What is a realistic figure cost? Are we being subsidised?

[petercooman]

Pendraken have an excellently huge range (we'll come to chariot armies later shall we?) and this hugeness is part of the reason I have nailed my standard to the Pendraken mast.

Pithead (if I may be excused for using that word) produce a wider WWII range, but only WWII. There's a difference in philosophy, difference in overheads.

Generalist or specialist?

I think there might be a difference in quality too though from first sight. I know some here use their stuff too as i have seen them; but their infantry looks so flimsy. One of the reasons i didn't start on their belgium line...

Pendraken, make a nelgium 1940 line!!!!!! Please!!

[Orcs]

I have a signigicant amout of both Pithead and Pendraken.  I have found the following

Pendraken and Pithead figures mix well, none of them are flimsy.
Pithead figures often have better poses.
Pendraken figures are better sculpts
Pithead vehicles often have crew members
Pithead vehicles are larger than Pendraken, but will mix as long as you do not have vehicles of the same type from both manufacturers.
Pithead range often contains stuff that would not be comercial for Pendraken to make.
Pendraken make a far more diverse range of 10mm

I would happily recommend both manufacturers.

[fred.]

I agree with JaF Orcs about Pithead vs Pendraken.

I certainly don't have any flimsy Pithead figures - are you sure you are not thinking of Minifigs - which are very slender chaps.

Pithead figures often have better poses.
Pendraken figures are better sculpts

This puts it well - I have been trying for a while to describe the differences between the two lines. The Pithead British are very nice for late war with lots of kit - just like photos of normandy.

Pithead vehicles often have crew members
Pithead vehicles are larger than Pendraken, but will mix as long as you do not have vehicles of the same type from both manufacturers.

Most Pithead vehicles are quite a bit larger than Pendraken - and I think the Pithead ones have a lot of extra detail, as they are typically 4 or 5 parts compared to 1 or 2 for Pendraken.

Coming back to Price - Pendraken are the cheapest 10mm around, especially for cavalry. Most of the 10mm manufacturers are fairly similar in cost for infantry (excluding GW and Eureka) but Pendraken cavalry and tanks are quite a bit cheaper (not that I've made a detailed price comparison for a while).

[WeeWars]

Coming back to Price - Pendraken are the cheapest 10mm around, especially for cavalry. Most of the 10mm manufacturers are fairly similar in cost for infantry (excluding GW and Eureka) but Pendraken cavalry and tanks are quite a bit cheaper (not that I've made a detailed price comparison for a while).

August 2012 10mm (Napoleonic related) prices:

www.michaelscott.name/1809/1809blogpost40.htm

[Leon]

Pithead produce a wider WWII range, but only WWII.

Hehe, I 've noticed that claim on their homepage!  Only wider in terms of nations covered, the actual size of their ranges is smaller than ours, by a couple of hundred codes.  (I was sad enough to check one day...    )

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Industrial espionage Leon ?

IanS

[Chad]

The guy running Pithead lives 15 mins walk from
me and as far as I can tell works from home.

Not the same scenario as Pendraken at all.

Chad

[Leon]

Industrial espionage Leon ?

More curiosity really, I'd always thought we had the most comprehensive WWII range, so did a bit of a tally up one day to see.

[fsn]

August 2012 10mm (Napoleonic related) prices:

www.michaelscott.name/1809/1809blogpost40.htm

I stand corrected. I don't want to disrespect Pithead, but their Churchill looked too slender and graceful. Not like a real Churchill. 

My point was that suppliers have to decide whether to specialise or be more general, and there are pressures on both strategies.   

[Hertsblue]

I stand corrected. I don't want to disrespect Pithead, but their Churchill looked too slender and graceful. Not like a real Churchill. 

My point was that suppliers have to decide whether to specialise or be more general, and there are pressures on both strategies.   

Order! Order! There's a big red sign at the beginning of this thread which says quite catagorically that it's not for complaining about other manufacturers.

(Mine's a pint of lager, by the way)

[fsn]

Order! Order! There's a big red sign at the beginning of this thread which says quite catagorically that it's not for complaining about other manufacturers.

(Mine's a pint of lager, by the way)

No disrespect to Pithead at all. It was an aesthetic viewpoint I was offering. Their Churchill just looks too nice. The Pendraken one is ugly and workmanlike, and that's how I like my Churchills.

[Leon]

I forgot to come back to this one, so apologies for that.  Right then, going on our accounts, this is roughly how the costs stack up, as a percentage of total turnover:-

25% - Metal
12% - Postage
8% - VAT
7.5% - Design and moulding
7% - Unit costs
7% - Shows
6% - Part time staff
2% - Stationary

Then there's a few other smaller expenses, like gas for the melting pots, banking fees, magazine advertising, website hosting, and all manner of other random bills, which accounts for another 5% or so.  So, that's almost 80% gone in expenses.  The remaining 20% is our wages. 

Ideally, our prices should be higher, but it's unfair to keep whacking price increases on the product every 12 months.  We've got a slight hangover from the previous decade, when we went 7-8 years without touching the pricing, and that's left us a little behind where we should be.  In the 10mm market, we've probably got the highest overheads, plus we release more new stuff than 90% of the whole hobby I'd think (1000 new figure codes/products since the start of 2010?), so our design budget is a lot higher than most.

Ideally, we would be somewhere closer to MM's pricing, so around £5 per pack, but I'm not going to jump us there in one go.  We'll probably have a price increase around the start of 2014, taking us to £4.50 a pack, and then another one 18 months or so after that.  As long as the basic costs like metal / unit / postage don't jump up, then that should be fine.  Hopefully people will still see us as value for money at those prices?

This is why I tend to shake my head slightly when I see new companies coming into the smaller scales.  If you want nice profit margins, you need to go with the bigger scales.  Your sculpting costs might be higher, but you can have the figures moulded and cast at a decent price without the need for metal, machines, premises, staff and VAT if you're a small business.  Your only overheads would be a website initially, and a bit of postage/packaging.  You could get someone to stock the range at a show for a commission, and you wouldn't even have to leave the house!

Anyhoo, I'm sure there'll be some questions on all that, so fire away and I'll do my best to answer them.

[Matt J]

I would look at that and consider your business unsustainable... unless you are selling in excess of 1,000,000 figures per annum (33,000 packs).

Your rational of increasing your prices is a must but you are right to do it staggered as you suggest, but I'd do it sooner rather than later. As you mention your main competitors are charging £5.00 a pack for something that is similar and not investing in so many new codes. We can all be busy fools.

Not my business, and I don't want to tell you how to suck eggs, but I would increases prices to £4.50 now and then £5.00 in 12 months and use some of the additional funds to invest in good quality website images because if you are selling at the same price as your competitors you will lose out on the fact you have no images. At the same price new potential customers will buy the one they can see.
Just having good images on the site would increase your turnover dramatically... but you know this   

I don't think your existing customer base would be put off by any increase considering the other factors such as excellent customer service and good QC.

[petercooman]

Hopefully people will still see us as value for money at those prices?

Even if you do it right now in one go, i'd still be buying

I'm one of those guys who has a budget and has to stay to it 

So if the prices go up, i just match my order to the money available.

And regarding the pithead guys being flimsy, it's just a matter of opinion when i look at the pictures, i have nothing against Pithead and think they do a really good job, but that was my first impression. If i look through thheir catalogue, i notice they have some stuff missing that pendraken has and vice versa BUT pendraken has more standard kit and more widely usable (again in my opinion). Only thing i really really like in the pithead catalogue is the panzer 'luchs'. Leon!! make a panzer Luchs please 

[fsn]

I'm one of those guys who has a budget and has to stay to it 

... and does not Friend Coonan put is finger neatly on the pulse? We (the customers) are doing our bit - feeding the dog cheap dog food, missing the children's dental appointments and becoming inveterate round-dodgers just to feed our Pendraken habit? We are unlikely to spend more, just buy less. Pendraken revenue isn't necessarily going to rise that much, though production costs will of course go down.