Modelling Workshop

[Phobos]

Thanks to all you guys! really inspiring your support.
Also, I want to make a quick question to the military history experts here: In the most of manufacturers, heitaroi appears with boeotian helmet, and don´t know if using another model (thracian, macedonian, attic) could be right.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

The sources I know of all show Boetian, but that does include later periods such as Roman mosaics ect. 
You could add one or two in others for variety I guess...
Been 20 years since I've thought about anything Alexandrian, sorry!
ML

[Phobos]

Thanks ML! I started a thracian/phrygian one, bit not too much happy with it... I,m searching for more visual references, but seems that all the manufacturers decided to go with the boeotian one...

Also, a couple more. Started experimenting with mixing milliput with green stuff (almost 20%-25% of milliput) as seen in various modelling forums, and I´m really happy with the results. And my first horse! Full of mistakes, but I have another on the shipyard with all fixed.

With neck fixed, lion skin on horse and laurel crown in the helmet.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Nice work fella! 

[Leon]

That's a pretty good horse there, maybe a little thin around the hind quarters, but a good effort for a first attempt!

[Rob]

Thanks to all you guys! really inspiring your support.
Also, I want to make a quick question to the military history experts here: In the most of manufacturers, heitaroi appears with boeotian helmet, and don´t know if using another model (thracian, macedonian, attic) could be right.

I think the Boetian was preferred by cavalry because it didn't impead their hearing. Cavalry had to be more aware of whats going on around them. I can't remember where I read this but it was probably a WRG armies and enemies publication.

[barbarian]

[Techno]

Damn fine Phobos !!
Cheers - Phil.

[Phobos]

Thanks to all, Techno, ML, Barbarian and Leon!

Yep, I have to reinforce the legs and correct the main shape, also, I know that the face is going to be a good problem

About Boeotian one, right, I´ve read the same in some book, maybe a WRG too, so I think I´ll stay with the boeotian for troopers and maybe attical for officers.

[Phobos]

Hi there! Some few more pics of my macedonians, almost finished.
Now I´m working in an oscan heavy cavalryman and a scythian nobleman, pics quite soon!
Keep working on horses, correcting proportions and positions, but not perfect at all (this is the fourth I done) Is not finished, and I´m going to redone the face and smooth surfaces with sandpaper.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Really nice!

[Hertsblue]

Great so far, Phobos. I still think the horse needs a bit more "belly", though. 

[Phobos]

Great so far, Phobos. I still think the horse needs a bit more "belly", though. 

You are totally right! That, and to lower the head, I made the neck too long (in 10mm Im learning that 1.5mm could be "too")

[Phobos]

Any admin could change the name of the thread to "Modelling Workshop?"

Tomorrow, more horses, incendiary pigs and the beginning of a Seleucid War Elephant

[Leon]

Any admin could change the name of the thread to "Modelling Workshop?"

Done!

[Phobos]

Thanks Leon! unfortunately no pics today.

A question for Nikharwood, Techno and Clibinarius (and any fellow sculptor that reads it): Finally I get the right proportions for horses, but still I have problems with the horse´s face. Any hint about that?

[Techno]

I'm afraid I use the trial and error method P.....Just try and copy a good model.
Practice again I'm afraid.
Cheers - Phil.

[barbarian]

https://www.google.com/search?hl=fr&safe=off&q=horse+reference+for+sculpture&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41934586,d.Yms&biw=1280&bih=937&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=twoRUbafNsiRtAaRo4HoAQ#um=1&hl=fr&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=horse+face+sculpture&oq=horse+face+sculpture&gs_l=img.3...4926.5603.2.5875.2.2.0.0.0.0.111.209.1j1.2.0...0.0...1c.1.2.img.2zTJ8DPFK98&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41934586,d.Yms&fp=19e51e49ba520531&biw=1280&bih=937

https://www.google.com/search?hl=fr&safe=off&q=horse+reference+for+sculpture&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41934586,d.Yms&biw=1280&bih=937&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=twoRUbafNsiRtAaRo4HoAQ#um=1&hl=fr&safe=off&tbo=d&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=horse+front&oq=horse+front&gs_l=img.3..0i19l6j0i5i19.1548.2595.6.2868.2.2.0.0.0.0.138.246.0j2.2.0...0.0...1c.1.2.img.ab7EXN8f6y0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41934586,d.Yms&fp=19e51e49ba520531&biw=1280&bih=937

Good luck !!

[clibinarium]

I missed this thread until now. I think you're doing well; the horse is a severe test of a sculptor.

Head wise, as Techno says its all about practice, there's no magic formula. What I did was to get a good 28mm horse I liked (Ebob's of Perry's) and copied it, that is to say I tried to sculpt as good a copy as I could. It can help to sculpt it the same size and then go down to 15mm and then to 10mm, you'll improve each time. Its much easier to use a sculpture than a drawing as you can turn it to any angle in your hand.
Also I would say to practice the proportions by drawing the horse. Its much quicker and I firmly believe that you can only sculpt something if you can draw it reasonably well. You'll spot what you are getting wrong and save yourself having to cut putty away and start over. Keep in mind the common mistakes; head too small/big, legs too short, or neck too long (that's the one I still have to watch). Use a ruler on both sculpt and drawing if you have to, after a while you won't need to anymore. If you are happy with proportions now thats fine.
If you can draw the head from the side and the front that will help your brain get the 3D shape of the object, once you go to sculpt it. When sculpting I find it useful to measure the underlying wire to be the maximum length of the head, and allow the tip of the wire to be just visible under the putty. Adding a little putty for some detail can make the head too big and throw out the proportion, so if I can see the wire, I know length is  not the issue.

[Phobos]

Thanks guys!

Curiously, I haven´t got the same problem with the elephant and the pigs... Maybe due to its sizes.

I use macedonian, roman and persian horses in 20mm of HAT, Italery and Zvezda as models and to have the muscles and positions clear.
Also, It has been really difficult for me to find a wire tiny enough to 10mm legs and arms, but strong enough to bend without breaking in the articulations, nut recently I bought some garden wire, and it works.

P.S. Actualization: I´ve finally succeeded in making a good horse face, at least the right side, I´ll try tomorrow to made the left one.