The Hobbit

[Maenoferren]

Mate of mine asked me to pick up the latest white dwarf whilst down on the mainland a couple of weeks ago and it was the Hobbit edition. Now I will say up front this is not to dis, annoy or otherwise have a go at Games Workshop. It is more to discuss the actual up and coming film.
Based on the models and the stills from the magazine I am not entirely sure what I think about the lateset work from Mr Jackson.

Bearing in mind I read the hobbit whenever I cant find anything/be bothered to read anything else. I am not in any way a zealot .
and to be honest I actually like what he did with the Lord of the Rings.. so here goes.....

Goblins of the Misty mountain, now fair do's to him Tolkien does mention different sizes of Goblins etc, but these seem a whole new species. and as for the great Goblin.....errrrr

The wargs... again we seem to have a whole new species, ie looking a bit like wolves rather than the hyena-esque trypes from the earlier films, surely wolves are wolves....


And then we get to the three film bit..... From what I have seen, heard and otherwise ascertained it should be called Middle Earth a large bit the hobbit didnt actually tell us.

Upon saying this no doubt I will go and watch it anyway,  but interested what other people think

[Steve J]

Is it really going to be a trilogy of films? I would have thought it could easily be done in one film, two at a push. Three IMHO is taking the p*ss.

[i_am_win]

I think they are just pushing it to three as didn't they have some big legal battles a few years back, so they probably think that they can claw the money they lost back from getting another one from all the footage they should have used on just two!

Regardless, I will be taking my two eldest to see it, so I'll reserve my final thoughts for then!

Don't even start me with the GW stuff.....yeesh!

[Steve J]

Just had a look at the minis on their website and not the b est I've seen from them. The poses look awful, but this may have been dictated by the requirements of using resin for the minis, if this is indeed the route they have gone down.

[sultanbev]

Looking forward to the film, I don't mind a trilogy as they adding in the battle of Dol Guldor 'exorcising the necromancer' which Tolkien didn't mention much so gives Peter Jackson a blank canvas for a good wizards battle. By stretching out to 3 films they may well be filling out some of the missing bits of the Hobbit alluded to in Tolkien's other work.

Having seen the GW miniatures though, am worried about what they have done in the film now! The GW Bolg looks like a WH 40K figure, not how I imagined him at all. But we shouldn't see him until film 3.
Also the clip showing Radaghast being pulled by a bunny powered sledge has got me worried. The albino Goblins? Umm, don't recall reading that. looking at the GW stuff, I get the feeling Jackson may have turned the encounter with the 3 trolls into a battle, and similarly the encounter with the Goblins in the Misty Mountains. There wasn't a battle, they were captured, and Gandalf rescued them by assassinating the Goblin king, then they legged it, with a running retreat where a dwarf dropped Bilbo. It doesn't auger well. Well, we shall see on Sunday.

As for GW, their prices are just taking the piss, over £40 for 4 resin figures of the White Council. Hopefully the range will be an overpriced flop!

Mark

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

  Having just read the troll chapter with the kids in class, there is definitely a fight, mostly Thorin vs the Trolls until he is captured! 

[sebigboss79]

Well..I am a bit biased but in short:

book version: no way a match for Lord of the Rings. Nice to read but not essential.

Movie: Won't go there unless I can get it for free, reason: Book was not "good" and usually films are worse. My first impression is that they wanna milk the cow as long as they can.

GW-Hobbit: Worse than the movie speaking of cowmilking. Figs I seen are rubbish and even for the GW standards way to overpriced. I am used to a lot of nonsense from Nottingham but this release is by far the worst I have seen in the industry so far. And I am a gamer since Space Crusade came out in Germany (circa 1990).

[ronan]

(...) Book was not "good" (...)

I like the book just because it's a "prequel"  to the trilogy. But I always thought it was well considered in english litteracy ? Am I wrong ?  ( I don't like the style in the french version)

About the movie(s) : I was very disappointed when I learnt it will be another trilogy. 3 movies for this children's story ?...    And I don't really like the photos. Not too "childish"....  But I will see it !  

[Techno]

Not going to rush out and see it....
Might even wait for the DVD of the second part to come out....and then pick up the first as a 'cheapo'.
Part one seems to be getting some rather poor reviews in the press at the moment....
We'll see, eh ?
Cheers - Phil.

[Luddite]

Looking forward to the movie and what Jackson has decided to do with it. 
I'm particularly intrigued as to how he's going to fill three films without a lot of padding.

Although i share the unease with the look of the goblins.  They don't fit my mental image from reading the books - whereas the LotR Orcs were spot on...

Also I'm thinking my wife won't be able to watch the second film at all as presumably it'll be 2.5hrs of giant spiders?


GW figures.
Undoubtedly the worst minis they've spat out for a very long time. 
Poor sculpts that look like the 'fit together' about as well as their first ropey experiments with multi-part plastics 15 years ago.

[Techno]

GW figures.
Undoubtedly the worst minis they've spat out for a very long time. 
Poor sculpts that look like the 'fit together' about as well as their first ropey experiments with multi-part plastics 15 years ago.

The thing I find difficult to get my head around is the switch to the resin (?) models for character/hero figures.
Or did I read somewhere ages ago that GW had stopped making metal models altogether.....and were really going for a much more 'toy' market approach to their games ?
(I'll come back to this when I know the answer to the above.)

Have to say that I really like the faces on the character models....At that scale, the designer's done a cracking job.....But the other figures I'm not so keen on....especially the trolls.
Some of the prices ?......Well....what can you say ?
Again, I don't understand the logic of charging that sort of price.....except to make an enormous profit.....but per unit.
But if you're after wodges of dosh, wouldn't it make more sense to charge a good bit less.....Half your profit per item.....but then sell 3,4, 5 (?) times as many, as they'd be far more attractive price wise, so lots more folk would buy them ?....Or at least be able to afford to buy them.

Wouldn't you put more money in the coffers that way ? (I'd just LOVE to know the ins and outs of the costings of these products, to understand the logic of the prices...How much did they pay for the license I wonder ?)

Cheers - Confused of Wales.

[Hertsblue]

Yeah, I don't see how you make a trilogy out of one slim volume either. Not without stretching the whole thing very, very thin.

And I agree that the Hobbit was essentially a kiddies book, not to be compared with LOTR in any shape or form. In fact, I don't think I ever finished the Hobbit, it was that far below par.     

[Nosher]

Had a toss up between this and Skyfall this Sunday just gone when me and 'the boy' went to Cineworld. I was dreading the response when I asked what he would rather see, thinking its going to be the Hobbit.

All I can say is 'the boy' is growing up quite rapidly.

"That's for kids dad. I'd much rather see Bond kick some serious arse!"

That's ma boy!! 

[barbarian]

For Techno : Someone who work in economics wrote an article on a blog about the prices of GW.

Said simply : If you buy a pack of 12 beers for 10 £ then sell a single beer can for 1 £, you'll be making effective money on the 11th and 12th cans you sell. At that point, if a new customer appears, you should buy another pack of 12, loosing again money.

Having the largest number of customers isn't always the way of making the most money of a product. (see Luxury items...)

About the faces of the miniatures, I'm afraid that the paintjob is really improving the sculpt (at least on the goblins)

[i_am_win]

Isn't the price increase with the Hobbit stuff supposed to be because of the movie licence/rights have gone up?

I think it's just hokum for them to justify price hiking once more. Lets face it, these must cost pennies to make, even with the other costs factored in total, they will still be making a huge profit in comparison.

Not to mention all the faithful new legion of GW Hobbit gamers who want all the expansion figures, rules and sets.... 

[Techno]

Point taken B

But that assumes you're buying the items to sell at a profit..

See if this gets across the point I was trying to make.

Imagine I own/run the mythical company "Techno's must have miniatures."
I create a set of 'X' number of figures and sell them for £40.....I make a lovely profit of £30 on each set...but as that's rather pricey, I only get 100 sales. (before anyone jumps in, I know I'm totally making these figures up, so it makes it all very, very hypothetical).
Only avid & wealthy "Techno's must have miniatures" collectors/gamers decide they can afford them.....I make £3,000 (30x100).....I can dream can't I ?

Instead of selling the sets for £40, I decide I'll sell them at the (ahem) knock down price of £20 a set......and just make a £10 profit on each.
Suddenly, another 400 people decide that that's a price they can live with....so I sell 500 sets....giving me a £5,000 profit (10 x 500)

That's what I was trying to get across......Less profit per item....But far more sales, which more than makes up for it.
Now someone who's really good at financial matters can shoot me down in flames

Hope it makes sense !

Cheers - Phil.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

TAX? VAT?

[Luddite]

Whatever they're doing its working for the shareholders http://www.standard.co.uk/business/games-workshop-profits-surge-40-7304732.html

Although interestingly 'The group's results also benefited from a large royalty payment it received from the games manufacturer THQ after the launch of its Space Marine computer game.'

This accounted for £2.6m of the roughly £9m increase.

Looks like the online cash cow is producing a lot of milk.

http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2011-12-Press-statement.pdf

Hopefully the next licensed PC game will have a better solo mode to make up for Space Marine's 'online teaser' approach.  Fingers crossed they'll bring in Bethesda to do a Fallout style RPG, with multiple bolt on expansions and an online option for the CoD gun bunnies...

TAX? VAT?

About £2.5m (+ VAT presumably?) on the half year..?  I think, going from those figures.  I'm no accountant thats for sure...

[sebigboss79]

And here I have to jump in!

Looking at plain figures the sales did increase. Now please keep in mind Mr Kirby (Ex-CEO) claimed a few things including that demand is not tied to price in HIS (GWs) business.

Having said that you will also agree that the prise hike has been gigantic for the UK although continental Europe has seen its share. We are talking of an increase of MORE than 30 % on AVERAGE. Now have the sales increased in the same fashion as the prices have been raised? They have not! The last price rise was more than 10  % and iirc the sales increased by roundabout 1 %. Please forgive me I did not do a full due diligence report, most of you will know GWs salary structure and forgive me for not wasting my time there.

In plain words GW is massively loosing customers. A "fact" I can verify by passing by the GW store here in UK. Visitors become younger (can be influenced easier) and actually get filtered through faster (average 3 visits to store / GW before the preference of videogames supersedes GW).

Reasons for these "losses" in sales are manifold (prices, quality, finecast). Utterings like during last AGM that 25 % will buy anything at anyprice and the remaining 75 % can bugger off (sic!) do seriously not help in the long run. Like Techno says, rather a long run high profit by retaining buyers than quickly milk the cow off 300 GBP and drop them to milk the next. THAT is the american dream of shareholder value but it is not a sustainable business idea.

We face decreasing birthrates (less 12 year olds) and miniature makes would be well advised to nurture a more diverse client base. Agreed older gamers like me do have more disposable cash but most of us are more critical on HOW exactly we spend that cash.

I feel very brownnosing (again) but looking at Pendraken I see how a business should rather be managed. Leon is always helpful and this excellent customer service is the reason the only purchase from GW I make is the black spray (it stinks considerably less than the Armypainter one) and "Ceramite White". The latter being subject of re-evaluation and testing of the Vallejo Foundation White I just bought from minibits. My brushes I get from em4 and Pendraken and all my colour purchases have been switched to Pendraken and Minibits.

So using GWs logic I can bugger off but I am sure Leon and Dave happily take over those 75 % customers. I am also sure they will be happier with Pendrakens'/Minibits' approach to business.

Rant ends here.

[Techno]

Don't regard that as a rant at all 'S'.

Cheers - Phil.