Help with tracking a relative?

[Dave]

I had a relative, Pvt Thomas Henry Pengilley, who actually lived about 50 yards from where our unit currently is (when it was residential obviously!), with his wife.  He served in WW1, but died on the 6th of November 1917, possibly at Passchendaele.  His Service No. was 8651.  His name is mentioned on the Menin Gate memorial.

Now the strange thing, and the reason for this thread, is that he served in the Canadian Army, 2nd battalion?  He wasn't Canadian himself, there's no family knowledge of him ever living there, or even having Canadian relatives?  So how would he have gotten into the Canadian Army?

Any help would be great, it's more curiosity than anything else!

[Squirrel]

Hi Dave,

It my be worth contacting these guys:

http://www.cefresearch.com/matrix/Army%20Corps/Divisions/1st%20Division/1st%20Infantry%20Brigade/2nd%20Battalion.htm

Good luck.

Cheers,

Kev

[lentulus]

You've seen this page of course

http://www.canadiangreatwarproject.com/searches/soldierDetail.asp?ID=58507

and his entry in the book of remembrance

http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/200/301/ic/can_digital_collections/books/ww1/ww1307.htm

and the virtual war memorial

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/Detail/1595226


which does not tell you anything you do not already know.  

Does look like he was in by 1915

http://archive.org/details/CEF_2ndBattalion_1915

Now searching the "pdf with text" version of that doc, I get 2 things

Under "Corps" I see Y.I. Yeomanry.  (most names have NIL, some have Canadian units -- the whole Canadian regimental system was ditched when the CEF battalions were organized).  He is listed as taken on strength at Valcartier on September 22; hard to picture if he was not here.

[Fenton]

Hi Dave

Had a quick look for you and found this

http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/1595226/PENGILLEY,%20THOMAS%20HENRY

I am sure you have already seen this

So I had a quick look on the CEF research site and found this

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc013/573011a.gif&id_nbr=563517

So I checked the 2nd Battlion quickly on Wikipedia) and found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Battalion_(Eastern_Ontario_Regiment),_CEF

If you compare the 2 it says his papers were signed on the 22nd September 1914  the day the SS Cassandra left Quebec City


I think this is going to come down to family history  and if he was working on ships or going by his job og Loco Engineer he wnt in Canada working over there

[nikharwood]

This might be worth a read too Dave [link to downloadable Official History of the CEF] :

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/oh-ho/detail-eng.asp?BfBookLang=1&BfId=22

[Dave]

Thanks for the help!

We didn't realise that he'd ever gone over to Canada.  Looking at the Attestation Paper's, he wasn't married when he signed up, so he must have married his wife in the brief time they were in the UK before heading back out to France.  

I wonder if he knew the girl before he went to Canada, and how long he'd been over there?  He couldn't have been in Canada long if he'd served 3 years in the Yorkshire Imperial Yeomanry Hussars, as he was only 23 when joined the Canadian Army.

Interesting to see how local everything has stayed, with us now only a hundred yards from his old house, all the family still in the area after 100 years, and me being an engineer as well!

[Fenton]

I also found this

http://archive.org/stream/CEF_2ndBattalion_1915#page/n2/mode/1up/search/Pengilley

[lentulus]

So I had a quick look on the CEF research site and found this

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc013/573011a.gif&id_nbr=563517

Oh, you hit paydirt.  I'll have to check my own family on that site.

[Fenton]

I also found this Dave

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/courts-martial/001006-119.01-e.php?isn_nbr=7603

I thnk the offence is a good conduct problem, overstaying pass etc

[Fenton]

I found this but you would need to check to see if hes there

http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s1=Sanctuary+Woods&l=20&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESOFF&Sect4=THESOFF&Sect5=FOTOPEN&Sect6=HITOFF&d=FOTO&p=1&u=http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/02011502_e.html&r=1&f=G

this might be of interest

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e046/e001126199.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e046/e001126201.jpg

http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e046/e001126206.jpg

Heres a link to the whole war diary
http://data4.collectionscanada.gc.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s1=2nd+battalion+&s13=&s12=1917&s11=y&l=20&s9=RG9&s7=9-52&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESOFF&Sect4=AND&Sect5=WARDPEN&Sect6=HITOFF&d=FIND&p=1&u=http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/02015202_e.html&r=1&f=G

[Leon]

Dave's on the other computer at the moment, he says thanks for the links!

From some of the links, he was in the 2nd Battalion (Eastern Ontario Regiment), is that the same as the Mounted Rifles in those links above Fenton?

[Leon]

Just found the court martial codes as well:

18(4a); Theft
40; Conduct to prejudice of good order and military discipline

[Nosher]

Wasnt one of the 'trench detectives' series dedicated to an Anglo-Canadian soldier?

It might be worth looking to see ifyour relative might have been an orphan. There were a number of families children sent to Canada through Barnardoes, who answered the call when it came to serve King and Country. They generally fought in Canadian Battalions.

[Fenton]

I think it might be the mounted rifles, which would make sense if he was in the yeomanry hussars ans then signed up though it could have been an expansion due to wartime volunteering as well

The Wikipedia entry says that the battalion was formed from an exsisting militia and given Pvt Pengilley's previous service that may be worth looking into


The 2nd Battalion (Eastern Ontario Regiment), Canadian Expeditionary Force was created in response to the First World War. The battalion comprised local militia in many regions of Ontario (and even from Quebec City). Men came from as far away as Sault Ste. Marie to join in Canada’s military endeavor. Local militia gathered at Valcartier, in August 1914 and became part of the 2nd Battalion

Valcartier seems to be where he enlisted according to the nominal roll

I was trying to find a canadian cenus for about 1911 ( not sure when the census's took place in Canada) but if you can find this then you might be able to find out what ship he took out to Canada depending when he set sail for Canada ...Quite a few immigrants for Canada seem to have come through New York

[Fenton]

I found this as well after having a dig ( you may have already seen it) , but it looks like there was some reorganisation just before  during the war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Regiment,_Canadian_Mounted_Rifles

Ok I am coming to a bit of a dead end now, I looked at the 1911 Canadian Cenus and there are a few Pengilley's in Ontario though none of the correct age of your Relative or by that name so I am presuming he arrived after that , so I did a quuick check on Ellis Island database and there is a Thos Hy Pengilley listed though he arrived at Ellis Island in 1907 aged 18 so again I dont think this would have been the correct age either seeing as this would have made him 24 at the start of the war and he isnt listed in the 1911 census of Canada ..though of course he could been lying about his age when he arrived in America if it is him, the only other problem with this is that it says that he was from Crookfield , and I thnk after looking at google maps that it seems to be near Doncaster