WW2 Pendraken Army Packs

[GordonY]

This one's for Leon pretty much but feel free to chuck yer 2p's worth in as well.

Ok I have been struggling to get these packs pointed up for BKC2, and I've found that the pack mix is all wrong in so many ways.

To be honest, it'd probably be better scrapping the current packs and starting again.

Ok the major generic problems with the packs.

Too little command : 1940 German pack has 5 officers and 2 Kubelwagons to command essentially 2 tank battalions and an infantry battalion, needs a minimum of CO and 3 HQs

Too many mortars : some armies are hard capped at 3 but some packs have 6

Too little transport : 1 transport provided for each 2 Infantry.

Too few infantry : normally 40 Infantry in a pack, just not quite enough for a battalion

What I'd like to see would be the army packs scrapped and "building blocks" provided, for instance

Big Boss pack : say a Kubelwagon, a Radio truck and maybe 4 Officer figure

Tank Battalion : Command tank and 9 other tanks (could be mixed)

Infantry Battalion : Horsht and 3 Officers, 45 Infantry, a HMG and a Mortar

Arty Company : Kubelwagon, 2 Officers and 3 Guns

Off course with single packs still available all the normal customisation that you could want would still exist,

Gordon

[Sandinista]

I like the idea of battalion packs, a good way to build a force up

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

I can see a mass of work being required for battalion packs although intellectually it's appealing.

Taking the 1940 example for May 1940:

Panzer battalion:
HQ: Command panzer I (not sure if GR186 is a Pz IB or a Pz I Bef?) {90}
2 Pz I (GR77) {80}
5 Pz II (GR102) {300}
3 PzIIIE/F (GR196) {225}
2 Pz IVD (GR200) {200}
this is taking Pz-Div.10 - if I took Pz-Div.7 or 8 I'd take Pz 38(t) instead of Pz III, with other divisions one might have to toggle the allocation of Pz I and II or III.
= 13 tanks = 895

Schutzen or Infanterie (mot) battalion
HQ: Kubel and officer {90}
45 infantry including MG34 (for 9 bases @5 figures) {360} ignoring AT rifles
1 8cm mortar (or 2 if you like two mortars per base) {75}
1-2 MMG (or 2-4 if you like two MMG per base) {40-80}
1 3.7cm PAK (GR215) {60}
3/6 motorcycles (as most of these battalions had one company as kradschutzen - otherwise +3 Protz trucks) {75}
1 Protz tow (GR225) {15}
8-9 Protz trucks (GR224) {120-135}
= 835-890 points

The variance in MGs is because of KStN variances between different divisions.  Technically you could add a 7.5cm IG and Protz tow in some divisions [Pz-Div.4, 5, 7, 9] because they had 4 IG per battalion (rather than 2 or 0).  In one battalion per division you would get a company mounted in Sdkfz 251 but better to ignore these (Pz-Div.1 seems to have had far more). 

Alternatively you could convert the battalion to kradschutzen (applying to one battalion in some divisions) by replacing Protz trucks with motorcycles for all the infantry and MMGs.  In Pz-Div 10 the infantry were carried in (fewer) 3-ton trucks.

Command group
1 command vehicle + command group as CO {150}
1 Kubel and officer as FAO {45}
1 Sdkfz 221 recce (GR142)  {55}
1 Sdkfz 222 recce (GR132)  {70}
this represents a light armoured car company, alternatively you could have a heavy armoured car company wirh Sdkfz 231/2 {80-90}
= 320

It's an open question whether you would want to bulk this 'command group' out with infantry guns, divisional AT, Flak, engineers etc.  The alternative is to ignore command groups and just have ~1000 pt battalion packs.

Regards

Edward

[NTM]

In this instance it would probably be best to make them generic 1000pt battalions including the basic options allowed in the army lists rather than base them on historical OOB's (I know this goes against everything I stand for but here it makes sense) So you'd have enough infantry for 9 stands, 3 x MG/Mortar (or however many the army list allows, don't have my book with me) etc. The army pack may not come to 1000pts but has the various options allowed per 1000 in the lists. I'll have a look at the book tonight and post an example of what I mean as my explaination is not great!

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

If you want any help drop me a line off list.

IanS

[Leon]

I'll have a chat with Dave on this one.  Really they want to be as simple as possible, without too many variations, so people can just come along, pick it up and play.

[GordonY]

Yeah, understood that Leon, but at the moment the packs fail at that, there's plenty of points in the packs, but they suffer (as do the ancient/medieval packs) from not having a playable amount of command.

[Sandinista]

Simple could be for Russians - early war (41), mid war (Kursk)  & late war (Bagration) with matching Germans

[Leon]

Dave likes the idea of building blocks but it does come with slight problems from a business perspective.  Splitting the big packs up means that people may not fork out for the full 1000pt's worth, meaning less overall sales, and making it harder to justify the 10% discount we put on the bigger packs.  We'd also have to take a larger quantity of these new smaller packs to the shows for people to have all the 'blocks' they need to customise their army.

Taking the 1940 example for May 1940:

Panzer battalion:
HQ: Command panzer I (not sure if GR186 is a Pz IB or a Pz I Bef?) {90}
2 Pz I (GR77) {80}
5 Pz II (GR102) {300}
3 PzIIIE/F (GR196) {225}
2 Pz IVD (GR200) {200}
this is taking Pz-Div.10 - if I took Pz-Div.7 or 8 I'd take Pz 38(t) instead of Pz III, with other divisions one might have to toggle the allocation of Pz I and II or III.
= 13 tanks = 895

Schutzen or Infanterie (mot) battalion
HQ: Kubel and officer {90}
45 infantry including MG34 (for 9 bases @5 figures) {360} ignoring AT rifles
1 8cm mortar (or 2 if you like two mortars per base) {75}
1-2 MMG (or 2-4 if you like two MMG per base) {40-80}
1 3.7cm PAK (GR215) {60}
3/6 motorcycles (as most of these battalions had one company as kradschutzen - otherwise +3 Protz trucks) {75}
1 Protz tow (GR225) {15}
8-9 Protz trucks (GR224) {120-135}
= 835-890 points

The variance in MGs is because of KStN variances between different divisions.  Technically you could add a 7.5cm IG and Protz tow in some divisions [Pz-Div.4, 5, 7, 9] because they had 4 IG per battalion (rather than 2 or 0).  In one battalion per division you would get a company mounted in Sdkfz 251 but better to ignore these (Pz-Div.1 seems to have had far more). 

Alternatively you could convert the battalion to kradschutzen (applying to one battalion in some divisions) by replacing Protz trucks with motorcycles for all the infantry and MMGs.  In Pz-Div 10 the infantry were carried in (fewer) 3-ton trucks.

Command group
1 command vehicle + command group as CO {150}
1 Kubel and officer as FAO {45}
1 Sdkfz 221 recce (GR142)  {55}
1 Sdkfz 222 recce (GR132)  {70}
this represents a light armoured car company, alternatively you could have a heavy armoured car company wirh Sdkfz 231/2 {80-90}
= 320

This looks good, with a separate command pack available.

[GordonY]

For the bigger army packs (at shows) just include, the command pack, the tank battalion and the infantry battalion and give 10% discount.

For web sales offer the individual packs without the discount, simples!

Means Joe Bloggs, goes to a show and picks up an army, later on decides he needs another Infantry battalion, so buys it from the website, but the nice part is he CAN buy a battalion in one click.

Another thing you might like to do is add some extra command into the ancient/medieval 1000pt army pack, sorry but playing Warmaster/WMA/WMM around 16 units and 1 general, just doesnt work. Needs a minimum of a couple of subcommanders, shouldnt push the pack price up by much, but would be nice to have an army good-to-go right out of the bag.

The £22 packs just leave as they are, theyre just nice basic 5 or 6 unit packs that you can fiddle with for any old rules, but if youre gonna do army packs for certain rule sets make them complete and ready to play with.

Gordon