Blame the TooFatLardies

[Last Hussar]

The new edition of IABSM has used this month's figure budget.

[Leon]

 

[wargamesbob]

Is it just me watching my purse strings too closely, or are rules becoming ridiculously expensive. Even buying these as a pdf download they are forty quid as they insist on sending the hardback copy too - which seems to make the idea of downloading the pdf slightly pointless

[Luddite]

£40?!?!

For the wooly 'back of a fag packet' rubbish TFL chuck out?!?!  Good grief.

But yes, in general rulesets are going up in price - especially for those rules tied to figures ranges, which seems counter-intuitive to me (i'd have thought those rules would be 'loss leaders')...

Personally i also find many of the newer glossy rulebooks are stuffed to the gunwhales with 'fluff'.  Typically if you strip out all the unneccessary bits and bobs, the actual rules in a rulebook are about 10% of the page space.  And often with some decent redrafting (i.e. proper writing) that could be cut in half again.

And another thing...most rulebooks aren't bound for use.  A5 format, spiral bound hardback is the best format for use at the table - most rules are nothing like this and are a real pain to use/refer to at the table...

[Steve J]

Black Powder is very expensive considering most of it is fluff IMHO. I think the best value rules are BKC/CWC/FWC at £20 each. All I ever really have on the table is the quick reference sheet and an army list. Simples .

[Luddite]

Since the 'Commander' series also includes all the army lists you need too, i'd agree they are great value for money.

[Last Hussar]

Personally I can't stand xxC - feels like Warmaster - not WM Modern, but WM. 

BP I got for £20, and I'm very happy with it.

Defence of TFL.

1st - £40 is the pre-release bundle - hardcopy and PDF plus pack of 104 cards (£12 seperately, which seems comparable to most CCG, or other card game- Fluxx, Chrononauts, Munchkin etc- on a price per card basis) and a set of plastic markers.  Straight pdf will be about £8-9 I think.

1st ed IABSM is a thin I know.  This is 3rd ed.  I think its going to be a lot like Charlie Don't Surf in quality.  CDS is 100 pages with everthing you need, force lists stats etc, and no fluff.  PDF is £9, Hardcopy £15.

TW&T is the finest wargame I know.  I admit there are times when I was going to play TW&T and we play something different - this is because we were too knackered: not to understand the rules, but it is a game that you really have to think about and use correct tactics on.  Of all the WW2 rules I've played its the one I've felt closest to the history.  TFL games work especially well if you have a umpire who knows the period, rather than just the rules, because he can make judgement calls.

Breaking for "spooks" - will return to "prices" later

[Last Hussar]

I do wonder what modern wargamers expect rules to be priced at*.  £20 is considered to be expensive.  Really? If you go out for a few beers with mates how much do you spend? £20 buys 5-6 pints - a round.  A haircut (see caveat) is a tenner - what lasts longer a set of rules or 3 haircuts (on normal people)?  How many books and DVDs do you have you read or watched once?  A cinema ticket is nudging £8.

We think nothing of putting hundreds of quids worth of lead on the table, yet £20 is considered a kings ransom.  How many people have a shelf full of Ospreys - £13 each.  How often do you use them? No really - do you each one half the amount you use the rules for the armies they were bought for.

Unfortunately I don't have prices on most of my rules.  I do know that Challenger 2 was something like £4 in 1990 - thats about £7 today according to the internet.  Do we really want that cramped A5 style?  Yes, we all have PCs but layout still uses time.  Mr Lincolns war - £10 in 2000.  So thin that it is staple bound.  Equivalent cost £13.50 today.  £3-5 isn't that much of a jump to something readable.

The other problem is colour. Save your huffs - colour is anything not black and white, not just pretty pictures.  Want to have your diagrams so you can differentiate the opponents?  Triple the print cost.

I happen to know Richard Clarke a little.  He is not some bloated evil empire rich publisher.  TFL is his full time job - he does not have time for a 'proper' job.  Publishing Kreigspeil almost bankrupted him (even after the length it has been available, he still thinks he is down on the whole deal!)  On the Yahoo group he said the most popular rules he has sold has run to something like 4000 sales over its entire lifetime, he's not JK Rowling.

So.  Exactly how much should a rule set cost?

*Caveat - I realise this is wargamers I am addressing, some of whom appear to regard haircuts as some sort of foppish extreme.

[NTM]

Is it just me watching my purse strings too closely, or are rules becoming ridiculously expensive. Even buying these as a pdf download they are forty quid as they insist on sending the hardback copy too - which seems to make the idea of downloading the pdf slightly pointless

PDF 'bundle' is £30
Hard copy rules can be purchased without the tokens and cards for £20
PDF rules can be  by themself for £12

All this information was gathered by looking on their site for a minute or two.

Please get your facts straight before going in to a rant or this place will become like TMP 

[wargamesbob]

I stand corrected and apologize to all, especially Peter Clarke if I have offended him or his products. The front page advertising on his web page directed me to the "bundles" option. On navigating using the products/I ain't been shot mum options I have indeed found the less expensive options which you have listed and will happily spend £12 for the basic pdf format copy.

It is not my intention to to create a  rant thread, but my general comment concerning the high pricing of rules does still remain the basically the same...they are getting dear. I  am well aware of the dramatic price increases for colour rather than monotone printing and also the advantages to the reader of having colour illustrations and whilst it would be nice to have the best of both worlds (cheap colour), ultimately we have to settle with one.

You comments about Osprey and the such are well founded, but I must admit that when I buy an Osprey or similar publication I generally know in advance that I am going to use it, whereas with a new rules set it tends to be more of a "I wonder if is better than what I am using now".

Anyway  thanks for pointing me towards a more affordable copy of this rules set and I'll check my information more carefully in future before I set fingers to keyboard.

[Last Hussar]

Sorry that came off a bit ranty!

Personally I've given up on a lot of the soldier based Ospreys, though i did buy the big napoleonic one, as it was a collection of a load for £17.  Most of them are pointless though- detail you don't need.

I'd prefer A4 to A5- coil bound is attractive but I think again it adds cost, and some times acts as perforations.

[DanJ]

Personally I was impressed by Black Powder and Hail Ceasar but when I tried to read them found all the fluff and background got in the way of the rules.  HC is the best as it has a good rule summary at the back which is very usefull.

What I miss though is a fast play sheet, after a couple of goes you should be able to play a game just using a playsheet with the odd reference to the rules about a particular point but neither HC or BP has a play sheet and more anoyingly neither has an index in these days its as easy to create an index as it is to create a table of contents.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Look on the Warlords site - sheets for both.

IanS

[Last Hussar]

Low ink (No yellow background) BP QRS

http://lasthussar.wordpress.com/2010/02/19/printer-freindly-black-powder-qr-sheets/

[Last Hussar]

I am twitching in anticipation- the odds are out, and I'm hoping Postman Pat will have the package with me by the weekend.  The PDF looks good but I am reading on my phone as I am away on business.