new medium? Printed 3d models/Shapeways

[Hurrah]

Not sure where to post this so mods, do move if you feel it’s in the wrong place.

Reading TMP i came across mentions of this site

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/kampfflieger

It seems to be a 3d print store which builds up models by printing them in a form of plastic.

2 reviews discussed here

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=240857

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=240407

anyone had experience with this service yet?

What do our resident designers think of the medium?

Would Pendraken think of doing such a 'printed' range sometime in the future to cover some of the more esoteric request? Especially if the cost comes down (Pendraken Bristol fighter is  £3.50, theirs, printed “assembled” except for the propeller , about £6.50, but I wonder how long before the increase in demand brings the price down    ).

Just wondering and asking what others think.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

The modles seem to be resin, and it works with short runs. Thyere are some nice star ships, modern warships etc.

ianS

[Leon]

I'm not sure if it's the same company, but I did see something similar last year at the Derby show.  It's a nylon solution which is hit with a laser to solidify it based on the design fed into the machine.  The results are quite impressive, but last time I heard, the laser accuracy was limited to 0.6mm, so fine details couldn't be picked out.  Plus the technology is still relatively expensive. 

Once the technology advances and becomes more mainstream, it'll completely revolutionise the designing process.  Imagine being able to take a scale plan, throw it into the right software to create a 3D image, and then put it through this machine.  You could have the master for your chosen vehicle, adaptable to any scale, within a day.  And even if the technology doesn't adapt that quickly, you could still use it to create a 90% finished master, which just needs a bit of detailing adding.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

You mean we might actually get some of the important stuff we need - like CENTURION, M48........


Seriuosly - I suspect it will work well with tanks, ships, and modern aircraft, it might be a bit cumbersom with bi-planes and a non-stater for figures.

IanS

[FierceKitty]

Give it time. It'll be usable for figures too in the future.

[Hurrah]

Well, it looks like reasonable gaming 1/144 biplanes are being created now, some with struts printed in place! (thats right, the only assembly being snipping off the propeller and drilling a hole for it to go in, and slotting/gluing it in!)

It seems to be becomming something of a hit with Wings of War gamers.

On the evidence/deveolments so far, I agree, finished figures, not yet.

Masters and maybe blank 'dollies' in certain poses that can be detailed, a very real possibility.

In the future, possibly much can be done.

With the rise in costs for tin/lead alloy, possibly rubber as well, it coudl become competetive sooner than we think.
I can't help but think that the resin manufacturers ought to be looking at going this way now and deciding if they want to go high end/esoteric  as they are and covering the mass market (reletively speaking) with this production method in the near future.

[Squirrel]

The shapeways site has been around for at least 3 years, and the technology has been in use for many more than that. The company I work for use it for 'rapid prototyping'.

In that time, the level of detail possible hasn't noticably increased, though shapways have introduced new materials which are apparently better. The basic material is a bit fragile. I certainly wouldn't expect huge advances in the short term.

If you snoop around the starship wargaming forums there are quite a lot of discussions regarding it's use.

Cheers,

Kev

[FierceKitty]

Stop me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this also mean that if something exists in 54 mm, it can be scanned, reproduced in 10mm, and used to make a mould? Making all sorts of neglected possibilities more feasible?

[clibinarium]

If I understand this right you could design a vehicle* on a computer, get them to make a print of it, resulting in a plastic model. Can you then make a low temp mold of that and reproduce it in resin or metal? Or are there technical or licensing reasons that would get in the way?

*Not figures yet, as the results so far with computer sculpting have been err, mixed.

[Spenno]

I know GW have used this on models they took from Forge World and wanted to turn in multi part plastic. Only know this cause I used to work for them.

[Shedman]

At the University of Bath they are working on the reprap project - which is a 3d printer that is aiming to print itself - I think they are upto the 50% mark at the moment

See http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page

There are a couple of these printers set up that are continually printing stuff - mind you it is slow - it takes about 2 hours to print an octopus that is roughly 28mm scale - don;t ask me why they are printing out 28mm octopi

However it would be possible to go down the route of printing a master and then casting from that

The resin - a vegetable based plastic - is pretty solid but it doesn't seem to give smooth finish so some polishing would be required

To my mind the tricky bit isn't the printing but the design of the object using  3D CAD software

Anyway I've arranged to be given a demo next week

[FierceKitty]

At the University of Bath they are working on the reprap project - which is a 3d printer that is aiming to print itself - I think they are upto the 50% mark at the moment

I've always had a fondness for that town; now I find out that they may be great benefactors to wargames too! Makes me regret that my house has two showers and no tub.

[Leon]

If I understand this right you could design a vehicle* on a computer, get them to make a print of it, resulting in a plastic model. Can you then make a low temp mold of that and reproduce it in resin or metal? Or are there technical or licensing reasons that would get in the way?

Nope, you could commission the design in exactly the same way as you'd do a regular sculpt.  Once the model is made, you could whack it into a resin/metal mould easily.  The cost of the technology right now make this the best option actually. 

To my mind the tricky bit isn't the printing but the design of the object using  3D CAD software

Anyway I've arranged to be given a demo next week

Let us know how it goes, I'd be really interested in hearing about the process in more detail.  As far as the 3D imaging goes, I'd guess it'll be like Photoshop and website-building, where more and more people get to grips with it over time, making it more mainstream.  It's something I'd certainly fancy having a play about at.

[Steve J]

We have in house rapid prototyping as we are a prototyping studio, part of a design company. A few points to note:

1 - Once you have a £D CAD model of any tank, figure etc, you can then scale it up or down to your hearts content. However, a scaled down 28mm model maybe simply too thin and detailed in 10mm. Some parts may need to be fattened up to make the durable and to be able to be cast.

2 - The cost of printing anything at present is much more expensive than white metal miniatures. The printed part then needs a lot of post processing for it to be able to take paint. Surface finish is getting much better, but is still not that comparable to hand sculpted parts.

3 - Printed parts in a resin that would take paint are frankly way too fragile for wargaming IMHO. They are also not that UV stable so may degrade over time, even when painted.

4 - Once you have a 3D CAd model, it is cheaper in the long run to make short run aluminium injection mould tools for plastic parts rather than resin parts. Zvezda are a case in point. Their 15mm range of tanks etc are about a 1/3 of the price of other 15mm resin or white metal manufacturers.

So, there you have it, or my two penneth at least.

Steve J.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Hi

There have been attempts at doing 1/144 figures by CGD http://www.shapeways.com/model/246464/ at Shapeways but without looking at them in the hand it's hard to tell if the quality is acceptable for mould making. You'll note that these aren't for sale yet.



Steve J has pretty well summed up where it all stands at present. You could only think of this if you can only get what you want as expensive collectors' pieces, have a good quality 3d model laying around and are prepared to put in the time and effort into getting the print right  .

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan