Composition of Russian Battalions

[Hertsblue]

The problem is that even after 1812 the "old" regiments, i.e. those that were formed before 1797, continued to carry the 1797 pattern colonel's flag, certainly until 1815. Hourtoulle reckons that in that year there were still over 60 regiments carrying the old colour.

He also thinks that accuracy is unattainable because of a) successive reforms, b) the creation of new regiments and c) the tradition that kept the old flags current for the original regiments.   

[wargamesbob]

Some years ago I put together an extensive 6mm (I know better now) Russian army using the oobs of Wittgenstein's corps in the Army of Bohemia at Leipzig in 1813 (Osprey "Leipzig" by  Peter Hofschroer - page 33) with additional  Guard, Grenadier, Cuirassier, Hussar, Lancer and Cossack divisions to add a little meat and variation, also from the Leipzig oobs. All in all some 64 infantry battalions,78 squadrons cavalry and a shed load of artillery. Anyways, I did quite a lot of research into who was carrying what flags using the information on the Warflags site as a starter and then amending this based on the information in the Osprey book "Flags of the Napoleonic Wars (2)" by Terence Wise. I still have all of the flags for the following regiments on file.

Infantry regiments
Perm 1800 issue;  Kaluga 1806 issue;  Sievsk,  Moligew;  Tenguisk;  Tulsk 1807 issue - Siberia inspection;  Mowoginsk 1806 - Moscow inspection;  Estonian 1806 - Ukraine inspection; Mourom;  Revel;  Tchernigov;  Selenquinsk;  Tobolsk;  Volhynia 1807 - Lithuanian inspection;  Minsk 1807 - Siberia inspection;  Krementschulk 1807 Siberia  inspection

Grenadier regiments
Moscow,  Siberia,  Kiev,  Astrakhan,  Fangoria,  Little Russia

I'm not sure where I filed my Russian guard or cavalry flags. They're on my hard drive somewhere! If you let me know what regiments you are painting I can rescale my flags and email them to you as a pdf file that you can print out.

As a rule of thumb the first battalion carried one white and one coloured flag, the other battalions two coloured flags each. Jaeger regiments didn't carry flags. In March 1807 a system of identifying regiments within a division by the stave colours was introduced, the first regiment had white staves, the second pale yellow, the third coffee brown and the fourth black.

[Last Hussar]

Thanks Bob, but I've beaten you to it.  I was up till the wee small hours putting together a battalion distiction guide for Number One Son (aka Daddy's little Stalinist aka Bloody Go and wash your armpits).  The info I've got has the stave colours changing again. The site - war flags I think-  mentions the system you have above, but notes it changes to a Yellow/Black/White/Yellow sequence.  A further saved web page (well pasted into Word) gives me the precedence within the Division, because it is for the shoulder straps.  I've got the flags ready - as you say 1 Bn, 1 White for 1st, and 2 Bn for the 3rd bn.  They are 9mm high, which is about right (My maths on a 142cm square flag).  (27th Infantry of VIII Corps)

I've also preped the flags for #2 sons French- 10th Div III Corps, along with notes for him about pom-pom colours - Handily we will be doing 6 base bns, so 1 base per coy.  Flags include the Fanions for the 2-4th bns, and are 6mm high.  I know the Light were not supposed to carry their Eagles in battle, but we know they did, and 24ths has 7 battle honours, which you can just make out on screen

[wargamesbob]

No problem, there's nothing like doing the research yourself to get a better understanding of what was going on. The seniority of regiments in the division is an awkward one though and to be honest I couldn't actually determine what regiments were senior and what were not, so some wargamer's inventiveness had to be used for that. I'm sure someone has a webpage or blog listing it all, but it's too late for me to go back and repaint all my staves - I know in my own mind, as do most other warganers, that I obviously made the correct choice for that particular moment in history 
All the best with the project and don't forget to post a bat rep of the first thrashing your Russians give them Frenchies.

[Last Hussar]

The reason I kept asking wasn't laziness, the Russians are so damn confusing, I needed someone to help me straighten my thoughts!  Actually I'm molly-coddling the kids (whose armies they are).  Their dyslexia means they will take the first result, rather than keep digging at contradictions.

I wish there was a Napoleonic version of the Kronoskaf wiki for SYW - everything in one place, and all uniform (ha) in layout.

[nikharwood]

I wish there was a Napoleonic version of the Kronoskaf wiki for SYW - everything in one place, and all uniform (ha) in layout.

Oh yes - that'd be lovely...tell you what, maybe if we asked Megamatman nicely he could knock this out over the weekend? 

[Last Hussar]

So the figures have arrived.  Look at the Grenadiers - the plume appears to be the pre-1812 'Bog Brush'.  Additionally Youngest son (Napoleon) likes the French Lozenge rather than the Tricolore.  However, because Daddy's Little Stalinist (long story) has Aspergers, and we have already researched 'Borodino' units he refuses to do pre-1812.  1812 is when the Russian started to get their... well stuff... together, so fighting pre 12 French on post 12 Russians will require negotiation...

If they both moved out I could have a war-room... [sigh]