Bersaglieri

[hammurabi70]

My late father in law (Eighth Army El Alamein to Cassino then Greece) always said the Italian troops were brave and good fighters let down by incompetent generals and obsolete kit.

Unenthusiastic conscripts, fighting a war they did not want, against an enemy they did not hate, without adequate equipment or supplies.  No surprise they surrendered in large numbers.  By the time the Germans were surrendering in Normandy during the NWE campaign the Germans had established their reputation as tough fighters; the 200,000+ PoWs taken in Normandy suggests that many had similar views to the Italian troops.

[paulr]

And the alternative to surrender was often being stuck on foot in the desert with little or no water...

[steve_holmes_11]

My late father in law (Eighth Army El Alamein to Cassino then Greece) always said the Italian troops were brave and good fighters let down by incompetent generals and obsolete kit.

I think we forget that the Italians in the desert were not fully motorised.
No prospects for them of hopping into the Opel or Volkswagen and bugging out a hundred miles to the rear.

Anybody doubting their courage ought to take a look at an L3/33.
Paper thin armour, leaky fuel handling, and you're up against 25 pounders and Matildas.

There's the site of an old POW camp just up the road from where I live.
Really nice lads by all accounts: worked on the local farms, caused no bother, attended the local chapel, some remained behind afterwards.
Much more agreeable than the airmen and U-boat crews who replaced them in '44.
Had to double the wire and arm the guards for that lot.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Italians - good troops very badly lead. Plus in 40-41 O'Conner captured all the water supply. Really left em no choice.

[John Cook]

My late father spent his entire war from 1941 to 1946 in North Africa and Palestine.  I remember him rebuking me for making a disparaging remark about Italians, to the effect "I saw a lot of dead Italians.  There is not much more you can ask of a soldier".

[steve_holmes_11]

Italians - good troops very badly lead. Plus in 40-41 O'Conner captured all the water supply. Really left em no choice.

Once you can't boil your spaghetti, it's game over.
(Tongue in cheek reference to a notorious set of boardgame rules).

https://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2017/09/18/pasta-rule-campaign-north-africa-not-actually-thing/#:~:text=In%20The%20Campaign%20for%20North,rule%20for%20a%20fiddly%20wargame.

[FierceKitty]

Italians - good troops very badly lead.

Pewter is better than lead, anyway.

[Ben Waterhouse]

Pewter is better than lead, anyway.

Touche!

[henjed]

Just bumping this one up as I'm getting desperate for 'em. (says more perhaps about my state of mind than anything else!).  Need 'em for those plumes, need 'em for holding the position my M11 and M13s seize  Please, please please...   

[Ben Waterhouse]

Just bumping this one up as I'm getting desperate for 'em. (says more perhaps about my state of mind than anything else!).  Need 'em for those plumes, need 'em for holding the position my M11 and M13s seize  Please, please please...   

Seconded, agin....😬

[sultanbev]

thirded 

[steve_holmes_11]

Did they wear the plumes in acytion?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

There is newsreel film of them in the desert with plumes fixed, but it's not action stuff, so I doubt they would have.

[Ben Waterhouse]

I believe they did attached to their helmets

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Any evidence Ben ?

[John Cook]

Did they wear the plumes in acytion?

Yes they did.  There is plenty of imagery on-line showing them; they aren't plumes though but black rooster feathers.  They wore them in Spain during the civil war, there are plots of photos of them on their colonial helmets and steel helmets in N Africa and on their steel helmets in Russia.  I converted a couple of dozen with ProCreate putty to make a Bersaglieri motorcycle platoon for my CTV in Spain - hardly a challenge.

[Westmarcher]

https://www.ridingvintage.com/2013/04/the-italian-bersaglieri.html

[Ariete]

My Italians are all6mm either H&R or GHQ so they get a tiny green blob on the side of their helmets at this scale!

[fsn]

[steve_holmes_11]

Yes they did.  There is plenty of imagery on-line showing them; they aren't plumes though but black rooster feathers.  They wore them in Spain during the civil war, there are plots of photos of them on their colonial helmets and steel helmets in N Africa and on their steel helmets in Russia.  I converted a couple of dozen with ProCreate putty to make a Bersaglieri motorcycle platoon for my CTV in Spain - hardly a challenge.

I think it's what Cavalrymen term a "falling plume".
Read somewhere that it consists of 400 feathers.