CWC-2 Army List Errata/Feedback 2025

[hammurabi70]

You also end up with a similar issue with AA guns.
You need a realistic range and hit factor to allow them to cover the battlefield to a reasonable distance, when undertaking their core anti-aircraft function and to actually act as a significant deterrent to enemy aircraft. However, players being players, this has be turned into an unrealistic table-top advantage when the same AA gun systems are turned on ground targets. So, there is an errata under test, that should stop this imbalance - as even target priority systems wont stop the deliberate engineering of potential 'abuse' situations. 

A standard line-of-site limit for Western Europe is 400 yards.  We used to use 800 but think this is too limiting so have upped it to 1,200.  Of course the sky lacks LoS obstacles.  Hence AAA weapons pointed at the sky horizon would not need limiting whereas for ground use terrain limits would be applicable.

[dylan]

My comments on the list "2025ColdWarBundeswehr1955-1990".

1. Under "Recce", is the M8 Scott really a "recce" vehicle? - I'd call it a fire support or maybe in rules terms a recce support vehicle. I'm also not sure why the Scott is singled out for inclusion - the Germans used a whole lot of Allied vehicles early on for recce - Bren Carriers, Ferrets, etc, even EBR-75s were in test use.

2. Under "Recce", the SPz Kurz 11-2 IFV served in panzer recce units until 1982.

3. Under "Recce", it isn't clear why the M41A3 Walker Bulldog listed here has an AP factor of 3/100 whereas the identical M41A3 listed under "Armour" has an AP factor of 3/110. Presumably they should be the same.

4. Under "Recce", German panzer recce battalions heavily used the M48A2C from 1966 until the 1980s. It isn't listed here as an option.

5. Under "Recce", in the 1980s panzer recce battalions had a company in Fuchs wheeled vehicles, plus some more Fuchs with RASIT radars. Fuchs is not an option here.

6.  Under "Support", why is it the 2cm guns on the Kraka and Wiesel are only rated AP=2/60 and AT=1/30 whereas the 2cm guns on vehicles elsewhere in the list are consistently rated as AP=2/100 and AT=2/80?

7. Under "Armour", the Luchs is incorrectly given in-service dates 1968-1975. The correct date is given in the Recce section.

8. Under "Armour", the first Marder was accepted for service in 1971. The designations given to the various Marder here are wonky.  The original Marder 1 was just called that. From 1977 it was fitted with the Milan 1 (losing one dismount in the process). The first true modernisation effort was carried out between 1979 and 1982 with the designation Marder A1. However, not all received the full modernisation and only those with all features were called Marder A1A. A further 674 additionally received passive night sights and were called Marder A1 (+). Between 1983 and 1991 a second modernisation programme resulted in the Marder 1A2 (which had the external rear MG removed and TI vision systems fitted). The third modernisation was carried out between 1989 and 1998 and resulted in the Marder 1A3 (which had additional protection against the Soviet 30mm on the frontal arc - not reflected in the stats given in this list).

9. Under "Armour", did in fact the M26 or the M46 serve with the Bundeswehr?

10. Under "Armour", the last M41 Walker Bulldog left German service in 1969.

11. Under "Armour", the last M47 left German service in 1968.

12. Under "Armour", the first M48A1 was received by German panzer divisions in 1957. In 1990 all stored early M48s with the 90mm gun were scrapped.

13. Under "Armour", the first M48A2GA2 was received in 1978. In 1991 all M48A2GA2 with the 105mm gun were scrapped.

14. Under "Armour", why is the 105mm gun on the M48A2GA2 given an AP factor of 5/150 when the very same 105mm gun mounted on the Leopard 1 series is given an AP factor of 4/120?

15. Under "Armour", the Leopard 1A2 was delivered from 1972.

16. Under "Armour", the Leopard 1A3 was delivered from 1973.

17. Under "Armour", it is not credible that the Leopard 2/2A1 has exactly the same surviviability (5 hits, saving on a 4) as the Leopard 1A1A1 or the M48A1. Something has gone badly wrong with the rating system.

18.  Under "Anti-tank [Dedicated]", the Kanonenjagdpanzer was not fitted with IR night vision until the early 1970s. Small Target maybe?

19. Under "Anti tank [Dedicated] the Raketenjagdpanzer 1 seems to be missing entirely (introduced from 1961).  The Raketenjagdpanzer 2 was not introduced until 1967.

20. Under "Anti tank [Dedicated], the HOT, Jaguar 1 was not introduced until 1978.

21. Under "Anti tank [Dedicated]", the I-TOW, Jaguar 2 is incorrect.  The original Jaguar 2 introduced from 1983 had the standard TOW missile. It was not until 1989 that the Germans began receiving the I-TOW for the Jaguar 2. All were retired by 1999.

22. Under "Air Defence [Dedicated]", the M42 Duster was introduced from 1956, and the M16 MGMC was removed from service by 1958.

23. Under "Air Defence [Dedicated], the Flakpanzer Gepard entered service from 1976.

24. Under "Air Defence [Dedicated], the Roland entered service from 1981.

25. Under "Transport & Vehicles", it isn't clear why the M113GA1 has survivability of 4 hits saving on a 6.  It isn't significantly more heavily armoured than the 120mm mortar M113A1G which is only given 3 hits saving on a 6 in the "Support" section of the list. Furthermore, the M113GA1 APC typically carried a 7.62mm MG (1/50 AP) rather than a .50cal (2/50).

26. Under "Armour" compared with under "Support" it isn't clear why the Milan 1 is 6/100 when on a Marder but 4/100 when dismounted.  Nor is it clear why the Milan 2 is 8/100 when mounted on the Marder but 6/100 when dismounted.

27. Under "Transport & Vehicles", it isn't clear why the 20mm gun on the Schutzenpanzer Lang HS.30 is given such different AP and AT stats from the 20mm main guns on other German vehicles.

28. Under "Artillery [off table]", the MLRS actually only entered service with the Germans from 1987.