BOHICA rules: French Indochina>Vietnam

[henjed]

Has anyone out there tried out this new-ish rule-set (from Empress Miniatures, I believe)?  I game French Indochina and have used both IABSM/CDS and COC for company and platoon level games respectively (and am mulling over variants for O Group at battalion level) - wondered whether anyone had a view on what works well in this set (conscious that as a small-scale skirmish level set it's aimed at bigger figures than 10mmm...).

Mike H

[streetgang]

I don't have them but have been tempted to buy them for my planned French Indo China project (10mm Pendraken). I've seen some overview of them here and there are some videos of game play on YouTube.

I did pick up Mourir Pour L'Indochine wargaming rules but they were massive at 120 total pages. Clearly a labor of love by the author, they were a bit much for my current gaming preferences. As of now, I plan to use Nordic Weasel's Fivecore Company Commander rules. They are at the scale I prefer gaming post-WW2 combat, I've used them for the Falklands and I think I can make them work for French Indo China with some house rules to add flavor.

[henjed]

Thanks for the response.

Yes, I too picked up "Mourir...." too, full of hope (as I know the author who is also one of the authors of Great War Spearhead (I also game Western and Eastern front 1914 at Division/Corps level using 10mm Pendraken figures)), but it was in large part disappointing.

I don't know the Fivecore Company Commander Rules but I did pick up Nordic Weasel's No End in Sight, ostensibly for late 1950s clashes between the French and FLN in Algeria (a project that hasn't yet gone anywhere).  I've not yet played the rules, but the activation mechanisms (and the fact that all units are always effectively on Overwatch) intrigued me.

I finally got a chance to flick through the BOHICA rules (they're hard copy only, of course) at Colours last Saturday and I wasn't massively impressed: the focus is clearly very much on US 1960s+ combat and some of the systems seemed rather 'inert'.

[streetgang]

I had my reservations about Bohica after flipping thru it at a convention and reading a bit about the mechanics. I think part of it was lingering fears after Mourir.

The Nordic Weasel Company Commander rules use alot of the same mechanics as the other rules. The basic maneuver element is a base representing a section. You can add attachments (snipers, LMGs, etc) and there are also heavy weapons bases. Different elements are slotted a certain amount kill and shock dice and attachments can add to those dice or give special abilities. Kill and shock dice do things on 1s and 6s. They are pretty simple and quick play but there's some nuance.

I will have to add some extra rules for ambushes or hidden deployment if I want to game French Indo China. Terrain is a necessary for the rules as units will get shot to bits in the open. That's a challenge for my Falklands games (I've added gentle hills, force, rock outcrops, etc) but should be fairly easy to put lots of terrain for Indo China. If you want to see an AAR of my test-run thru the rules, check it out here.

[hammurabi70]

I don't have them but have been tempted to buy them for my planned French Indo China project (10mm Pendraken). I've seen some overview of them here and there are some videos of game play on YouTube.

I did pick up Mourir Pour L'Indochine wargaming rules but they were massive at 120 total pages. Clearly a labor of love by the author, they were a bit much for my current gaming preferences. As of now, I plan to use Nordic Weasel's Fivecore Company Commander rules. They are at the scale I prefer gaming post-WW2 combat, I've used them for the Falklands and I think I can make them work for French Indo China with some house rules to add flavor.

Nordic Weasel's Fivecore Company Commander rules
What gives these rules a particular appeal?  I tried and enjoyed Fivecore Brigade Commander but the rest of the club gave it the thumbs down so I am interested if you can identify the core good points that give it appeal to you that I can share with others.

[streetgang]

My guess is if they didn't like Brigade Commander, they probably won't like Company Commander. I have both and a lot of the mechanics are the same or similar. That being said, I prefer Company Commander. I think the the application of the mechanics work better at the company level as opposed to the brigade level. That's just me.

As to what I liked specifically. I use the random turns where a roll to a one allows everyone to move, a roll of a 6 triggers a firefight and everything in between is a normal type turn where you can activate a certain number of units. Over watch rules punish units who try to move out in the open.

I like simple quick play rules and I feel that these created tension and a general feel of modernish company level combat with uncertainty and brief but violent spurts of violence. The buggers in the fortified area may be hard to kill but if I lay down enough firepower I can get drive them out of there or pin them for an assault.

I'd argue that they are too generic in some areas (all infantry is essentially the same) but you can make modifications and add attachments to replicate the difference in quality of forces.

Hope this helps. I'm away from my rules for the next few weeks so I can't really provide an in depth granular analysis at the moment.

Nordic Weasel's Fivecore Company Commander rules
What gives these rules a particular appeal?  I tried and enjoyed Fivecore Brigade Commander but the rest of the club gave it the thumbs down so I am interested if you can identify the core good points that give it appeal to you that I can share with others.

[henjed]

Thanks for the link, streetgang, which I'll take a look at. No End In Sight is a skirmish game with individually based figures, but I was really drawn in to the activation mechanism (which has about three variants) and the overwatch rules.  A lot of my recent gaming has been BKCIV, IABSM or CoC so friction and uncertain activation are things I really enjoy.

But I'm also keen to play French Indochina games a at a higher level (possibly battalion, using tweaks to O Group): does Nordic Weasel do something that sits between Company and Brigade, or might a battalion level game work well under either of those systems? 

[streetgang]

But I'm also keen to play French Indochina games a at a higher level (possibly battalion, using tweaks to O Group): does Nordic Weasel do something that sits between Company and Brigade, or might a battalion level game work well under either of those systems?

I've played Company Commander with a few companies (so almost a battalion) and it worked fine. For Brigade Commander I believe, and it's been a while since I looked at the rules, the basic element of maneuver (a base) is a company. I could be wrong on that however.

I imagine you could probably game the size you want with either larger Company Commander games or smaller Brigade Commander. Hope this helps.

[henjed]

Well, I bought the rules (there was a special offer on Nordic Weasel games I spotted on the dreaded FB: only £5.02 for a downloaded pdf) and will give then a read.

The real challenge with Indochina games is to create scenarios that won't be too unbalanced and which resonate with historical reality of the time.

[streetgang]

Good stuff! Hopefully you enjoy them. I think they at least provide a framework which allows one to add more "chrome" to achieve the desired result.

I completely agree with you regarding the scenarios. I believe Osprey has a book on the FFL soldier versus Viet Minh in which they cover three smaller battles in depth but also touch upon other actions. I felt like it gave me some good fodder for scenarios. I think for Indo China, you can't go wrong with:
1) VM ambush on a French convoy
2) VM assault of a French base
3) French search and destroy of a suspected VM supply cache or troop concentration.

Something else I've tinkered with is giving different (and sometimes non-competing) victory conditions/objectives for each side without the players being aware of the opponents objectives. Maybe the French want to destroy the VM weapons cache but the Viet Minh objective is to destroy as many of the French vehicles as possible or to limit their casualties to a certain amount.

The big thing with Company Commander that I need to address is adding some effective hidden deployment and ambush rules, which shouldn't be too hard.

Well, I bought the rules (there was a special offer on Nordic Weasel games I spotted on the dreaded FB: only £5.02 for a downloaded pdf) and will give then a read.

The real challenge with Indochina games is to create scenarios that won't be too unbalanced and which resonate with historical reality of the time.

[paulr]

...
Something else I've tinkered with is giving different (and sometimes non-competing) victory conditions/objectives for each side without the players being aware of the opponents objectives. Maybe the French want to destroy the VM weapons cache but the Viet Minh objective is to destroy as many of the French vehicles as possible or to limit their casualties to a certain amount.
...

A really good approach, I've found objective setting the key to most asymmetrical scenarios

A lot of my scenarios include this sentence, "The scenario will work best if each side only reads their own briefing."