Hornby purchases 25% of Warlord Games

[Raider4]

Hornby have just purchased 25% of Warlord games.

Acquisition of a Minority Interest In Warlord

Interestingly, Hornby - also owners of well-known household name brands such as Airfix, Corgi, Scalextric and others - had total revenues of £55 million last year. Games Workshop - a less known name, I think - had total revenue of £387 million.

[Leon]

I saw this over the weekend, it's certainly an interesting move.  The deal includes an option to buy a further stake in the business on the anniversaries of this initial deal, so Hornby could own it entirely within about 4 years.

The price point is curious too, valuing Warlord at £5m overall.  Their 2022 accounts showed a turnover of £15m but profit after tax of £500k, so a net profit of less than 4%.  Valuing the business at 10x profits is very high and it'll be interesting to see what changes they're going to implement in order to get that investment back.

[flamingpig0]

Valuing the business at 10x profits is very high and it'll be interesting to see what changes they're going to implement in order to get that investment back.

Closing down the Gates of Antares line.

[toxicpixie]

Presumably focus on a project/ruleset/release for more than three minutes?

I like a lot of Warlords stuff but they don't half jump around.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Presumably focus on a project/ruleset/release for more than three minutes?

I like a lot of Warlords stuff but they don't half jump around.

They also tend to be on the expensive side

[toxicpixie]

They also tend to be on the expensive side

Very true! Especially post cost of living crisis price rises :/

[steve_holmes_11]

Presumably focus on a project/ruleset/release for more than three minutes?

I like a lot of Warlords stuff but they don't half jump around.

I've always felt that some competent project / product management would really help.

[Leon]

From a business perspective, the proprietary scale stuff they've done in recent years seems like a missed opportunity, especially the 'Epic' 13.5mm stuff. 

Launching those ranges in such an odd scale means that the majority of the purchasers are going to be their own customers, plus a selection of newbies who like the 'game in a box' aspect.  But you've got substantial markets of 10mm and 15mm gamers already out there who would have jumped straight in to either expand their existing collections or start a new project, increasing the potential return on that investment massively.

Also with the Naps Epic stuff, you're never going to be able to put out enough product in plastic to cover everything needed.  We've spent 10+ years working on our Naps ranges and we've still got gaps that need filling.  So your new Epic customers suddenly find that they can't expand their army beyond what Warlord give them and then they lose interest.

It's the same with the Blood Red Skies game, in 1:200th.  We've had a couple of events up here for it and the players are constantly talking about how difficult it is to find anything that's compatible.  Decals in particular seems to be a problem because all of the existing companies produce for 1:285th or 1:144th.  So you can get 3D printed planes but then you can't mark them up properly.

[toxicpixie]

There wasn't a decals issue for 1/200 until Kev at Misc Minis had to stop international postage!

His stuff was good, postage incredibly swift, and decently priced.

But postal issues scuppered that :/

[Leon]

There wasn't a decals issue for 1/200 until Kev at Misc Minis had to stop international postage!

His stuff was good, postage incredibly swift, and decently priced.

But postal issues scuppered that :/

Yeah, a few of the BRS guys have chatted about that in the shop.  It'd make sense for them to find a UK stockist if the shipping options are that bad.  If we had space for them I'd be tempted to pop him an email, but I've got a few too many projects on the go already! 

[fsn]

From a business perspective, the proprietary scale stuff they've done in recent years seems like a missed opportunity, especially the 'Epic' 13.5mm stuff. 

I never know quite what to make of the Epic stuff. It seems to me it was trying to solve a problem that nobody had. Their USP is that all the infantry figures are stuck together which is OK if you like that sort of thing.

[toxicpixie]

Yeah, a few of the BRS guys have chatted about that in the shop.  It'd make sense for them to find a UK stockist if the shipping options are that bad.  If we had space for them I'd be tempted to pop him an email, but I've got a few too many projects on the go already! 

His range is... everything, basically. Knowing what to stock would be awkward, though I guess at least one for each plane set Warlord do, maybe at one each for Plane Printer...

But I'd agree, a few too many irons in Your fire as is to add another!

[toxicpixie]

I never know quite what to make of the Epic stuff. It seems to me it was trying to solve a problem that nobody had. Their USP is that all the infantry figures are stuck together which is OK if you like that sort of thing.

They're quite nicely done - club mates decided to use them so I went in (on the cheap, mag sprues, freebies and sell offs mainly!).

Sold off my never getting anywhere 28mm (all unpainted!) and it covered them and we got it to table.

Works nicely for Black Powder, but tbh I wish I'd convinced them to go with Blucher and either actual 10mm or 6mm...

They're definitely an answer in search of a question, but I assume they're intended to tie in gamers to "the warlord hobby" a la GW...

The new ECW ones are... quite nice scupts but they're locked shoulder to shoulder and just look daft for the muskets.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Blood Red Skys - the choice of aircraft is a bit odd as well, there are Spit I/II but no Mk IX which was the most comon one. There are decals to mark them up, although they may not match the type, so i have Mustangs maked up with Defint squadron codes. Doubt anybody will notice.

Same applies to Victory at Sea, Cruel Seas and Black Seas, ships are a different scale to all other rule sets. For Cruel and Black Seas it's not a great problem, but the VaS stuff is both expensive and equipped with hover skirts.

[Orcs]

The Epic stuff certainly looks nice and paints up well. Several of he guys at Aylesbury have bought the Pike and shotte release to do Thirty years war. Two things put me off ,the odd scale and some strange compositions of the sprues. 

[Orcs]

The Epic stuff certainly looks nice and paints up well. Several of he guys at Aylesbury have bought the Pike and shotte release to do Thirty years war. Two things put me off ,the odd scale and some strange compositions of the sprues. 

They obviously had to produce terrain and it looks like a good mix including s Vauban style fort.  I suppose they thought that by having a unique scale they would force people to stay with them, but i suspect that people will loose interest when they cannot expand.

4% profit is  very low. I guess that is because the injection molds are expensive and they have invested a lot in them. Production of the minis is onlu pennies a sprue, but you have to sell a hell of a lot to cover the cost of the mold

Look at PSC they have been quite slow in expanding their range recently, perhaps a more sound way of doing things

Presumably focus on a project/ruleset/release for more than three minutes?

I like a lot of Warlords stuff but they don't half jump around.

Spartan games did this, Dystopian wars in 1:300, then Dystopian Legions, Planet fall as both fleets and ground action. Over expanded themselves and went bust

[Raider4]

The Epic stuff certainly looks nice and paints up well. Several of he guys at Aylesbury have bought the Pike and shotte release to do Thirty years war. Two things put me off ,the odd scale and some strange compositions of the sprues. 

I have a freebie sprue of the infantry from the mag. Look good to me, but I've not done anything with them.

One reviewer was impressed by the infantry, but thought less of the cavalry.

Despite being an odd scale, apparently they do match well with some other 'real' 15mm figures such as from Peter Pig.

[toxicpixie]

Blood Red Skys - the choice of aircraft is a bit odd as well, there are Spit I/II but no Mk IX which was the most comon one. There are decals to mark them up, although they may not match the type, so i have Mustangs maked up with Defint squadron codes. Doubt anybody will notice.

Same applies to Victory at Sea, Cruel Seas and Black Seas, ships are a different scale to all other rule sets. For Cruel and Black Seas it's not a great problem, but the VaS stuff is both expensive and equipped with hover skirts.

BRS suffered from Warlords initial excitement > drop it release schedule, but player interest has kept it going really well.

The mishmash of releases is partly Warlords usual approach and partly because we did everything we could to keep them producing, AND now it's mostly due to their switch to resin and going back and redoing the older planes.

The initial released Spit II were ropey - they were soft-ish bendy plastic that shrank in the moulds (same with the P51, Zero, Me109E, Yak), they then released stuff in metal including Spit IX - which was better but between ok and solid, AND some hard plastic stuff like the Hurri's which was *superb*.

However - the switch to resin has meant a lot of lines have dropped (early Aces we're much sought after...), but everything is coming back as they move through - I'm hoping for Spit IX soon returning as well as they're a beast

See the three sets of decals they have for them - https://store.warlordgames.com/search?q=spitfire+ix&options%5Bprefix%5D=last&id=31469094305872&quantity=1

Warlords decals are nice but limited, as you say - Skytrex is now doing 1/200 ones though so that might help...

[John Cook]

We've spent 10+ years working on our Naps ranges and we've still got gaps that need filling. 

Yes you do, especially pre-1809 for which you'd need some additional French types as well as Russians and Prussians.  Austerlitz and Jena seem pretty popular in 28mm and 15mm I wonder how they'd go in 10mm.  I'd certainly buy them but then early Naps have always interested me more than the 1812 and The 6th Coalition.  As for Waterloo - just too boring.  But there are solutions, all that is needed is the will to do it  

[steve_holmes_11]

From a business perspective, the proprietary scale stuff they've done in recent years seems like a missed opportunity, especially the 'Epic' 13.5mm stuff. 

Launching those ranges in such an odd scale means that the majority of the purchasers are going to be their own customers, plus a selection of newbies who like the 'game in a box' aspect.  But you've got substantial markets of 10mm and 15mm gamers already out there who would have jumped straight in to either expand their existing collections or start a new project, increasing the potential return on that investment massively.

Also with the Naps Epic stuff, you're never going to be able to put out enough product in plastic to cover everything needed.  We've spent 10+ years working on our Naps ranges and we've still got gaps that need filling.  So your new Epic customers suddenly find that they can't expand their army beyond what Warlord give them and then they lose interest.

It's the same with the Blood Red Skies game, in 1:200th.  We've had a couple of events up here for it and the players are constantly talking about how difficult it is to find anything that's compatible.  Decals in particular seems to be a problem because all of the existing companies produce for 1:285th or 1:144th.  So you can get 3D printed planes but then you can't mark them up properly.

Really interesting perspective coming from the boss here.


I think (and excuse the terse computer analogies):
Pendraken are like Linux - massive scope and variety for the DIY tinkerer / grognard.
Warlord have tended to follow their GW roots and acted like Microsoft "Have our latest stuff suckers".
The "odd scale" of Epic is a "Classic Microsoft" lock-in move.


Warlord are a little more community minded than Microsoft, linking up with others of the Nottingham Mafia to fill out their offerings.
You'd never hear of Microsoft collaborating with another Seattle IT business in that way.


I'm an old Grognard who embraced the DIY approach many decades ago.
Creating precise orders and mixing and matching product codes for attractive units is part of the hobby to me.
It provides fun that a starter box would deny me.