CWC-2 Army Lists

Started by Leon, 21 May 2022, 12:04:29 AM

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sultanbev

Sweden had Green Archer counter-mortar radars, and the Bplpbv-3023, a flsh-spot sound ranging version of the Pbv-302 APC in the 1970s.

HogansHeroes

As mentioned, the S-Tank is an unusual case. Relatively thin armour, but highly sloped and with no turret.

This provided good protection in the 60s (the Swedes estimated as much as a Chieftain), but became obsolete in the 70s (really the S-Tank overall in a nutshell).

Just to add, the S-Tank also had very good reversing capabilities (better than its contemporaries) with a separate reverse driver (who also managed the radio). This means the S-Tank could more easily keep its front towards the enemy when redeploying/retreating. Not sure, if that should count when calculating hits/saves?

On the other side, the S-Tank had poorer off-road capabilities than the Swedish Centurions. Maybe its speed should be reduced (given the amount of off-roading on a battlefield)?

sultanbev

I agree on rating the S-tank as equivalent to a Chieftain frontally. Plus hull down it has as low a profile as an unarmed jeep. It can also turn on the spot quicker than many tanks can traverse their turrets. Watch the Youtibe videos on it.
I would say the S-tank was viable well into the 1970s, because the most common enemy tank it would face was still the T-55 and PT-76 - none of the T-64s and T-72s were deployed in the northern theatres, and the only 125mm it would face would be T-80s from the mid 1980s. I'm not even sure it would have had to face T-62s.

Big Insect

All very helpful folks ... these sort of 'oddity' vehicles are the thing that make the list writing 'fun'  :D

I'm researching the Portuguese list(s) at present and came across a French made (wheeled) APC (EBR-ETT) used exclusively in Angola, where Portugal was the only export customer (in fact the only customer) for this vehicle, which was basically a turretless Armoured Car (Panhard EBR) with a troop compartment to the rear - but with some integral MGs like a tank.

NB: the Portuguese used a 'fab' vehicle camouflage pattern in Africa/Angola. Just a shame that they use so few armoured vehicles in Africa.

Cheers
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

dylan

Quote from: sultanbev on 15 June 2022, 09:32:27 PMI agree on rating the S-tank as equivalent to a Chieftain frontally.

Hmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain.  If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.

hammurabi70

Quote from: dylan on 17 June 2022, 06:47:46 AMHmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain.  If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.
The Tank Chat is worth a look.
S-tank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7cb7GlOnSY
Chieftain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3OF9IvtHLk

Raider4


QuoteHmm, just to note, I disagree with the current rating of the Chieftain.  If the Chieftain is reduced to what I think it should be, then happy if the S-tank is similar.
Looking at the British list, all tanks from Chieftain Mk.2 up to Challenger II have the same Hits/Save of 6/3.


Is an early model Chieftain as well armoured as the latest Challenger? Of course not. But they have the same scores?

Remember the granularity that CWC works at - we only have 4 choices for Hits - 3, 4, 5 or 6. 3 is for light tanks or IFVs, 4 for WW2-types, 5 is early MBTs, 6 is for the latest & greatest.

Save with saves - CWC uses 6 down to 2. Again, 6 for light tanks, 5 for WW2, 4 for early MBT, 3 for later MBT, 2 for the latest Abrahms.
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dylan

Quote from: Raider4 on 17 June 2022, 09:02:04 AMLooking at the British list, all tanks from Chieftain Mk.2 up to Challenger II have the same Hits/Save of 6/3.


Is an early model Chieftain as well armoured as the latest Challenger? Of course not. But they have the same scores?

Remember the granularity that CWC works at - we only have 4 choices for Hits - 3, 4, 5 or 6. 3 is for light tanks or IFVs, 4 for WW2-types, 5 is early MBTs, 6 is for the latest & greatest.

Save with saves - CWC uses 6 down to 2. Again, 6 for light tanks, 5 for WW2, 4 for early MBT, 3 for later MBT, 2 for the latest Abrahms.


Yes, well aware of all that.

Unfortunately my views on Western/NATO tanks were on the other thread relating to the army lists.

So, to clarify, I'm suggesting the early model Chieftains (those before Stillbrew) should be 6/4 rather than 6/3.

Big Insect

Can we move this debate over to the Army list Errata chat please folks.
Or it will get lost here or be overlooked.
Thanks
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Quote from: Big Insect on 16 June 2022, 10:16:43 AMAll very helpful folks ... these sort of 'oddity' vehicles are the thing that make the list writing 'fun'  :D


Given what I'm working on ATM I have to disagree......I hate armies that don't throw anything away.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Big Insect

Quote from: dylan on 17 June 2022, 09:07:34 PMSo, to clarify, I'm suggesting the early model Chieftains (those before Stillbrew) should be 6/4 rather than 6/3.

I will certainly review and consider that dylan - as we enter into the errata review - thank you
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Leon

2 new army lists released tonight to go with our new ranges, which can be found here: https://www.pendraken.co.uk/arab-israeli-1082-c.asp

Arab-Israeli Wars 1956+
- Arab States
- Israeli
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to almost 6000 products, including over 4200 products in 10mm, plus MDF bases, Vallejo paints, I-94 decals, Red Vectors MDF buildings, Raiden Miniatures, Militia Miniatures and much, much more!

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

New lists look good. I would have separated the Arabs out into 3 lists and there should perhappes have been an Iraqi one (Not checked to see if I wrote one) as they commited in 73. Nice to see the NATO designations for missiles ie AT-3 Sagger.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Leon

More new army lists released tonight, with the Indo-Pakistan War now covered plus an extra Vietnam list for the ANZACs:

Vietnam War 1957-75
- ANZAC

Indo-Pakistan War 1965-71
- Indian
- Pakistan
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to almost 6000 products, including over 4200 products in 10mm, plus MDF bases, Vallejo paints, I-94 decals, Red Vectors MDF buildings, Raiden Miniatures, Militia Miniatures and much, much more!

Leon

Two new army lists released tonight with the Chinese and South Korean lists now available to download:

Cold War 1946-90
- Chinese
- South Korean

This completes Batch 2 of our planned lists, so that's 38 online now.  We'll be moving on to Batch 3 in the coming weeks so keep an eye out for those.
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to almost 6000 products, including over 4200 products in 10mm, plus MDF bases, Vallejo paints, I-94 decals, Red Vectors MDF buildings, Raiden Miniatures, Militia Miniatures and much, much more!