Why are Wargames Rules so Complicated ... ?

[Raider4]

One feature common to a lot of successful "non complicated" rules is consistent mechanisms.

And dice rolls. Roll high for success, roll low for success. Don't care which. But pick one and stick to it.

Sorry, personal bugbear.

[Steve J]

Yep changing from a high roll is bad to it being good is strange, when the former tends to be the norm. It makes swapping between rulesets even more awkward!

[toxicpixie]

Leman, I didn't know you'd left the UK!

Agreed on FoG, really wanted to like it but eeeeesh, it was dull.

The rules are very clear and "legally worded" but it produces terrible games. Impetus on the other hand suffers from the translation, is quite non-obvious, but produces excellent games.

[Leman]

Yep agree on Impetus, but now find I prefer to play the Basic version as too much was added to the original over the years. I moved to Delfzijl in July last year before the escape tunnel collapsed. 

[mmcv]

Yep changing from a high roll is bad to it being good is strange, when the former tends to be the norm. It makes swapping between rulesets even more awkward!

I've often thought that would be an interesting survey, what is more intuitive to people, roll high for good or roll low for good.

To me rolling high for good always seemed more natural so that was something that always jars a little with me in the likes of Black Powder/Hail Caesar/etc, where you have to roll low for command but high for hits. Given they're different actions it's not too bad, but as my first introduction to wargaming it was a bit of a strange one. Same with "roll under" style games, making the flip to see the lower score as the good one.

[Chris Pringle]

I suppose that one virtue of high rolls being sometimes good, sometimes bad, is that it discourages the use of loaded dice. A mate used them against me once as a joke (it wasn't funny). But if your opponents use them routinely, you're probably playing with the wrong people.

[hammurabi70]

I suppose that one virtue of high rolls being sometimes good, sometimes bad, is that it discourages the use of loaded dice. A mate used them against me once as a joke (it wasn't funny). But if your opponents use them routinely, you're probably playing with the wrong people.

It also mitigates tendencies, however induced, to roll consistently high or low with the dice.  I know of at least one set of home brew rules that uses high dice for a good outcome in combat and low dice for morale; it does not seem to be difficult for people to cope with and avoids arguments about how the dice 'hate' someone, even if you can claim your statistics show you always roll badly in all circumstances. 

[toxicpixie]

Yep agree on Impetus, but now find I prefer to play the Basic version as too much was added to the original over the years. I moved to Delfzijl in July last year before the escape tunnel collapsed. 

Oh ho, now I have vague memories of that being mentioned by you somewhere! Good timing

I actually think I agree on Basic Impetus, it's just so much straightforward! Extra chrome is seldom worth it.

[Leman]

We are aware that dice are inanimate objects aren't we? Despite this I have a friend who always plays a game with at least three sets of dice to hand. If he rolls a succession of 1s he changes the set of dice claiming the previous set must be broken. Bizarre!

[toxicpixie]

Hush, your dice will hear you! Don't hurt their feelings or you're doomed!

On a different note, I've disappointed many at my club with an insistence that I don't want cool shiny sparkle whatever effect dice, and just want high contrast, easy to read ones, that show up legibly at table distance under whatever lighting condition we're in. Pretty dice are great, but no good if neither me nor you can read the feckers... slows games up and even if not, errr, "misrepresenting" what's rolled, the "it's a .... six, not a three, no wait, hang on..." is really bloody hard work.

[hammurabi70]

We are aware that dice are inanimate objects aren't we? Despite this I have a friend who always plays a game with at least three sets of dice to hand. If he rolls a succession of 1s he changes the set of dice claiming the previous set must be broken. Bizarre!

I know someone who insists on replacing a die that rolls any good '6' on the grounds he wants to win by 'skill' not luck!

[toxicpixie]

*blink*

O... k...

[Raider4]

Hush, your dice will hear you! Don't hurt their feelings or you're doomed!

Make your dice fear you! Punish the bad ones with a visit from the sledgehammer! Make sure all of the others witness this!

[steve_holmes_11]

Yep agree on Impetus, but now find I prefer to play the Basic version as too much was added to the original over the years. I moved to Delfzijl in July last year before the escape tunnel collapsed. 

I remember reading through Basic Impetus.
I thought "This has hit the ideal spot between simple and feeling credible".
Then I flipped the page to the missile weapon rules. Noooooo!!!

[steve_holmes_11]

I know someone who insists on replacing a die that rolls any good '6' on the grounds he wants to win by 'skill' not luck!

The "Retreat form reason" continues, without a hope of a rally.