Warlord Epic scale

[Redstef]

Don't forget Leon will do 55mm bases if you ask him nicely. But not perhaps this week, He claims he is busy??

when I get fed up with cutting the bases (which is likely to be fairly soon) Leon will definitely be getting a call, can't imagine what is more important than waiting for my order though 

As Ace of Spades says, the historical accuracy is a bit wayward to say the least, but I can get past that. The advantage of ACW is that you can streamline fairly easy with generic infantry. Not a great deal of cavalry and if you don't like horses no problem, you'll have them dismounted most of the time anyway so don't bother.
I also have Pendraken ACW but only a Divisions worth for Brigade Fire and Fury. I was going to do more but my mate got carried away and done the entire ANV and AoPotomac for Getteysburg, so there's no need.

The flags are hand painted. I really like painting flags and its the bit of the unit I look forward to. They are the tissue that comes with new shirts with a bit of tin foil in the middle so they hold the wave.

[Raider4]

The figures look good en masse and the casting is pretty crisp but on closer inspection kit and the manual of arms positions are pretty bad... everybody seems to be holding his rifle any way he wants which is totally inaccurate for a unit in line. Marching is a bit of a shambles too with some left foot front, others right foot front. The kit they're wearing and how they wear it also defies belief.

From the very little I've read about the ACW, that actually sounds about right. These are not a British Guards regt.. Non-professional soliders, little formal training.

[fred.]

How do these fit with other 10mm figures, Pendraken's for example?

Norm (of this parish) has some very good photos on his blog. They are much taller than Pendraken, very similiar in height to Kallistra, but much more slender than both.

[Norm]

Thanks Fred, this is the link, comparing with Kallistra and Peter Pig.

LINK

http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2021/01/warlord-epic-acw-painting-and-comparing.html

[Norm]

Cancel - cocked up the post!

[Norm]

I'm working on my second test-regiment (Union this time) and I'm still not sure whether to continue down this road or not... I stand a fair chance of winning a starter box ( I hope to convince myself at least...) and that might push me over the edge but otherwise I don't think I'll invest in a new scale this round. Painting time was indeed much higher than I expected too because of the detail.
Pendraken won't work with these; the difference between 10mm and 13mm is just too much. As said by Redstef; Kallistra would be the way to go. If I continue with this project I would definitely replace the artillery and add some new command figures too for some variety.
The figures look good en masse and the casting is pretty crisp but on closer inspection kit and the manual of arms positions are pretty bad... everybody seems to be holding his rifle any way he wants which is totally inaccurate for a unit in line. Marching is a bit of a shambles too with some left foot front, others right foot front. The kit they're wearing and how they wear it also defies belief. You would have thought that a company like WG would do some research before spending all this money on such a project. Then again; how can one possibly come by the right information this day and age!  

Ah well, let's see if I can get some for free and then decide on how to go from here!

Cheers,
Rob

I think in some ways, the point of these may have been lost along the journey, simply because the sculpts are so good, crisp and sharp for their scale. I rather fancy that John Stallard's 'vision' for this kit was more about the 'plastic soldiers' experience many of us got as youths from airfix (he has a soft spot for Airfix 1/76 poly soldiers) and the way that many of us would have just been happy with a blue and grey army and I think this is where the generic feature of the sculpt may come from, as well as the practicality that a 'do all' single sprue, mass produced would cross the economics threshold to allow the project at the price point.

The fact that modern sculpting and process simply produces such an excellent figure, perhaps accidentally undermines that ethos, if indeed that was ever the original idea and instead, we end up with something that we are now seeing as 'serious' rather that the 'toy soldier' aspect. What I am saying is that I question the view that warlord did not research, but rather due to a well engineered product has delivered something different than intended. I may be totally wrong of course (again!) :-)    

[Redstef]

I'm not sure whether Warlord got it wrong or just underestimated the potential for this type of sculpt. I see no reason why a specific Union sprue couldn't have been made (kepi/backpack), Artillery on a separate sprue as well as command. If its a financial decision, why not just list them as 'Infantry' and save on the cost of separate box prints for union and confederate when the contents are exactly the same, sell artillery separate and individual sprues of command (not the 5 strips for £12 !!!).
I have seen the reason for the high price of the follow up ranges is because they expect to sell less so the production cost is reflected. I don't accept this, as other manufacturers do not do this. The price for Pendraken Iron brigade is not more than the rest of the range and the same reduction in sales of this pack applies. I feel that the adoption of a unique scale is to ensure you only buy from them (forgot to research Kalistra). That in itself to me is not a problem as I personally prefer to get the entire project from the same manufacturer as I like the continuity. The problem for me is the almost contempt for the punter in their pricing

[Norm]

I have no idea, I do not have an insight to WG, nor am I a fan boy or a defender of them, but do think that their are some dynamics at work that are not profiteering related. Firstly the difference in cost between one sprue style and two sprue styles must be huge, especially when trying to hammer down an entry price point to the opening game. As for sales numbers, my understanding is that they underestimated opening demand and had to have more manufactured.

the second and third wave are being done in their resin, again my understanding is that they are limited to Spain for this material and that costs post Brexit to get this material here have gone up. I note that Plastic Soldier Company, who use the same material for their 15mm ancients range, around a month ago, put their prices up from £35 a box to £40 and I have come to know them as being a pretty stable company on price.

The sculpting cost for phase 1 (single sprue) was cheaper than the sculpting for multi part phase two / three and volume would certainly not be there, otherwise for a mass market, surely hard plastic would have ultimately been the cheaper product. So I just think there is more going on here than the straight assumption that WG are pulling a fast one at our expense.

Though the public based wargame media seems to almost exclusively having an alternative view to that, I think we have to accept for the sake of balance, that the starter game would have by nature attracted a high volume of customers who are cautious about spend, it therefore should not be a surprise that the same group by inclination, see the follow up phases as being something hard to swallow.

I do know that thanks to WG, Victrix and Plastic Soldier Company, who are each dabbling in the smaller scales, that wargame shows are about to become a lot more scale diverse and more interesting for that.

[Leman]

That final point is a massive plus in itself, and most likely reflects the way historical gamers collect armies, and probably fantasy gamers as well, what with 15mm, 10mm and 6mm fantasy manufacturers out there. May be that will be the next big thing - fantasy plastic figures. In fact hasn't one company started to rerelease GW 10mm in plastic or resin?

[Raider4]

In fact hasn't one company started to rerelease GW 10mm in plastic or resin?

Eh? Well that'll be a first, seeing how fanatical GW are about protecting 'their' IP.

[Leman]

Thought I'd seen something that looked like them. Not being a fantasy gamer I'm not really up to speed on all that.

[Redstef]

There will always be certain amount of ignorance to the production costs of a manufacturer by the paying public. I have read accounts from employees of GW, or so they say, claiming that the resin production actually costs less than the plastic, but as we know, anecdotes are not data.
It seems to me that because of the high demand for the starter sets, even with a drop off in interest, future releases will still be in demand. With the current price structure of the follow up phases this will severely be reduced even putting some off from even starting. One sold at £30 is better than none sold at £40.
I'm not having a go at WG, I buy from their other ranges and consider them good value. They are playing a massive role in introducing gamers from sci-fi/fantasy backgrounds to historical games which can only be good for us all. It just seems to me they have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory on this particular range

[John Cook]

Pendraken won't work with these; the difference between 10mm and 13mm is just too much. As said by Redstef; Kallistra would be the way to go. If I continue with this project I would definitely replace the artillery and add some new command figures too for some variety.
Cheers,
Rob

Thanks for that.  For that reason, and all the other issues mentioned elsewhere, I think these are a non-starter, for me anyway.  They do look good though.

[fred.]

Thought I'd seen something that looked like them. Not being a fantasy gamer I'm not really up to speed on all that.

There are certainly some new companies producing figures that fit with the GW fluff, I wouldn't;t call them copies of WM figures - and I'm certain the manufacturers won't for obvious reasons.

But there are certainly some good interesting new 10mm fantasy ranges out there, several taking advantage of 3D printing.

[John Cook]

From the very little I've read about the ACW, that actually sounds about right. These are not a British Guards regt.. Non-professional soliders, little formal training.

Not sure about that.  In between battles, which comprised most of their time, and if the memoires etc., are anything to go by, soldiers spent most of their time drilling and training generally.  They might not have looked so smart, but I think most regiments, on both sides, had a lot of formal training.   On route, when marching 'at ease', they probably carried their weapons as they chose, but on the battlefield a regiment would have been uniform in this respect, typicaly with muskets at the right shoulder.