Sleepy stuff!

[Westmarcher]

Would moving to a different part of the world (i.e., timezone) help?

Says he who can't get to sleep at 4.50 am and so is surfing the web instead.

[Techno II]

I'm beginning to wonder whether the fact that I wake up umpteen bloody times during the night, is a 'throwback' to the time I needed to go and have a pee every hour. (Before I got my prostate scraped/reduced.)

I get a decent, uninterrupted, seven hour sleep maybe once a month. I don't feel tired when I get up, but come 9 or 10 in the evening I'm usually shattered.

Cheers - Phil

[Ithoriel]

Would moving to a different part of the world (i.e., timezone) help?

Says he who can't get to sleep at 4.50 am and so is surfing the web instead.

I can fall asleep almost anywhere, anytime when it's light and struggle to sleep when it's dark. Alas, no time zone has it's daytime when it's dark

I think somewhere in my brain there must be a bit that's been fitted backwards

The only time it came in handy was university .... sadly, not in burning the midnight oil over my textbooks but literally partying 'til the sun rose

[John Cook]

Would moving to a different part of the world (i.e., timezone) help?

Says he who can't get to sleep at 4.50 am and so is surfing the web instead.

I'm afraid not.  In normal years I spend up to three months over winter in Australia, with my son and his family.  Jet lag is not an issue if you get a flight that arrives around 22:00.  You arrive shattered after 24hrs without proper sleep and just crash until the next morning.  The irregular sleep pattern soon kicks in again, but at least you can sit outside on the decking with a bottle of something red from the Yarra Valley and watch the moths and the occasional prowling Huntsman.

[Noktu]

I can fall asleep almost anywhere, anytime when it's light and struggle to sleep when it's dark. Alas, no time zone has it's daytime when it's dark

I think somewhere in my brain there must be a bit that's been fitted backwards

The only time it came in handy was university .... sadly, not in burning the midnight oil over my textbooks but literally partying 'til the sun rose

I have AD/HD, and have very hard time trying to keep up with the normal sleep rhythm. Also when I have hard time falling asleep, I need to go full spasm mode with my feet to relieve some of the energy I have.

There is a vast amount of neurological stuff that affect the sleep I wager. And I need to take my dose of amphetamine medicine on work days to actually "wake up" and be effective little soldier.

It annoys me that I cant practice my craft in the late hours, because the police will come ask for my tax number.

[mmcv]

Interesting how many people in the field/hobby have sleep issues.

That sounds sadly familiar as well, it took me 16 years to get a proper diagnosis from a sleep specialist.  There isn't a cure for it unfortunately, but at least now I know why I've been tired for nearly 2 decades.

I've been much the same all my life. Never bothered with diagnosis, and have managed to train myself over the years to go to sleep at "normal" times most of the time, especially when working, but any minor disruption can throw it off. When I'm off work for a stretch it'll start to creep later then takes a week or two to resettle when back. My wife, on the other hand, will happily go to bed at 9 pm and sleep through until morning.

If I ever get exhausted enough to fall asleep before midnight I'll likely wake up after a couple of hours then not get properly back to sleep all night. Keeping a regular routine does help to get 5 or 6 hours most nights, but still get plenty of restless nights. On the plus side you learn how to deal with being tired a lot, which I'm hoping will come in useful if/when kids come along...

The only time it came in handy was university .... sadly, not in burning the midnight oil over my textbooks but literally partying 'til the sun rose

In uni, especially final year, I was pretty much nocturnal. Most of the classes were in the afternoon (and the morning ones weren't important enough to go to anyway) so would work on my dissertation from 8pm to 2am or so when I was most productive then not go to sleep until maybe 6am and wake up around midday. That was probably a little extreme. I found my best sleep pattern was going to sleep around 4am and waking around 10 or 11am. Unfortunatly that doesn't really fit with "normal life".

It annoys me that I cant practice my craft in the late hours, because the police will come ask for my tax number.

Yes the walls in my house have all the noise canceling ability of tissue paper, so even quiet activities (like painting) can make enough of a clatter to be disruptive at night, so not really fair to do it after my wife's in bed. But yes, I imagine if you started up power saws and hammering at 3am and the like might cause your neighbours some consternation. Maybe building yourself a soundproofed workshop would be a good investment?

[Techno II]

Interesting how many people in the field/hobby have sleep issues.

It is, isn't it ?  :-......Quite 'fascinating', in a way.

At this current time, I don't remotely suppose that it's just ourselves (in the miniature figures/games hobby) that are suffering from this.

Unlike some of our very good friends here....I can't 'claim' that I get bothered by any extraneous noises at night. It's quiet as the grave overnight.....So why do I wake up at silly times, during the night ?

Cheers - Phil

[Leon]

In uni, especially final year, I was pretty much nocturnal. Most of the classes were in the afternoon (and the morning ones weren't important enough to go to anyway) so would work on my dissertation from 8pm to 2am or so when I was most productive then not go to sleep until maybe 6am and wake up around midday. That was probably a little extreme. I found my best sleep pattern was going to sleep around 4am and waking around 10 or 11am. Unfortunatly that doesn't really fit with "normal life".

I'm almost exactly the same, my most productive work time is through until around 2/3am most nights and then I'll sleep 5am-midday roughly.  I can do the earlier mornings from time to time (when we're away at a show for example) but they take 3-4 days to recover from usually.  As you say, this doesn't fit with a traditional routine though and most folks over the years just assume I'm lazy, which is difficult.

[Ithoriel]

Yes the walls in my house have all the noise canceling ability of tissue paper, so even quiet activities (like painting) can make enough of a clatter to be disruptive at night, so not really fair to do it after my wife's in bed. But yes, I imagine if you started up power saws and hammering at 3am and the like might cause your neighbours some consternation. Maybe building yourself a soundproofed workshop would be a good investment?

I'm in a four-to-a-block maisonette where side-to-side soundproofing is fairly good but there is absolutely no sound deadening up-and-down. I stick in ear-plugs every night, only way to get a reasonable amount of sleep. I use headphones when on the PC after about 8pm since it's in my bedroom and directly below the bedroom of the two little girls upstairs.

The joys of communal living

[mmcv]

I'm almost exactly the same, my most productive work time is through until around 2/3am most nights and then I'll sleep 5am-midday roughly.  I can do the earlier mornings from time to time (when we're away at a show for example) but they take 3-4 days to recover from usually.  As you say, this doesn't fit with a traditional routine though and most folks over the years just assume I'm lazy, which is difficult.

Yeah, I would have got that at times too, especially when younger, when in reality I was likely sleeping less time than they were, but just because it was at a time they were awake they took it as laziness. I do wonder how much comes down to nature vs nurture. My family would all tend towards going to bed later than "average" (assuming average is around 10-11pm) and even at a young age I can remember having a hard time getting to sleep and sitting up late reading (and putting a towel along the bottom of the door so my parents wouldn't see the light underneath it when I was supposed to be sleeping 😂).

Unlike some of our very good friends here....I can't 'claim' that I get bothered by any extraneous noises at night. It's quiet as the grave overnight.....So why do I wake up at silly times, during the night ?

You're probably right about it being a throwback if your body got into the habit of it over a long period. Though do you have any breathing issues? That can sometimes cause people to wake themselves snoring or with apnea. Stress and anxiety can always affect sleep too, even subconsciously if there's things on your mind. I'm generally a pretty relaxed person, but do notice that I tend to be a bit more restless during the night at stressful times, even if I'm not consciously feeling particularly worried or stressed out. Must manifest in dreams and the like.

I'm in a four-to-a-block maisonette where side-to-side soundproofing is fairly good but there is absolutely no sound deadening up-and-down. I stick in ear-plugs every night, only way to get a reasonable amount of sleep. I use headphones when on the PC after about 8pm since it's in my bedroom and directly below the bedroom of the two little girls upstairs.

The joys of communal living

We've taken to having fans going for white noise at night to try and damp the neighbour sounds, though getting a bit cold for it. All being well we'll be moving house in a few months, hopefully, to somewhere a bit quieter. Not quite Techno Towers remote, but a little out of the Big Smoke anyway.

[Techno II]

You're probably right about it being a throwback if your body got into the habit of it over a long period. Though do you have any breathing issues? That can sometimes cause people to wake themselves snoring or with apnea. Stress and anxiety can always affect sleep too, even subconsciously if there's things on your mind. I'm generally a pretty relaxed person, but do notice that I tend to be a bit more restless during the night at stressful times, even if I'm not consciously feeling particularly worried or stressed out. Must manifest in dreams and the like.

We've taken to having fans going for white noise at night to try and damp the neighbour sounds, though getting a bit cold for it. All being well we'll be moving house in a few months, hopefully, to somewhere a bit quieter. Not quite Techno Towers remote, but a little out of the Big Smoke anyway.

Breathing issues... Not what I'd think of that as a serious issue, Matthew. I DO suffer from very slight asthmatic problems.
Stress....Yeah....But I've always been like that... I've said it before....If I haven't got anything to worry about....I'll worry about what I'm missing,

On one of the numerous (usual) occasions when I've woken up at stupid o'clock in the morning, and switched the radio on, I heard 'the fact' that our ancestors woke in the early morning...did some chores....and then went back to sleep.

Cheers - Phil (So glad it's Saturday tomorrow. ...Even tho' Wales is in complete 'lock-down' as of 20 minutes ago......I've got all of my favourite crisps I need to last me for a week or more.)

[Matt J]

I do remember reading an article some time ago that suggested sleeping through the night is quite a new thing. Evidence suggests that before modern times people would go to bed at night fall then get up again in the middle of the night (and not just individuals, whole families) and people would go out visiting neighbours, do jobs etc then after a couple of hours go back to bed until sun rise.

[mmcv]

I do remember reading an article some time ago that suggested sleeping through the night is quite a new thing. Evidence suggests that before modern times people would go to bed at night fall then get up again in the middle of the night (and not just individuals, whole families) and people would go out visiting neighbours, do jobs etc then after a couple of hours go back to bed until sun rise.

Yes I've read similar accounts, particularly before industrialisation. And in certain native tribes in the likes of the Amazon it would be common to sleep in short shifts for safety. Certainly two shorter sleeps a night rather than one long one seems to be more common in most of human history.

[Heedless Horseman]

 I didn't realise that the clocks had gone back for 3 days until I went for an eye test and was an hour early! 

[Techno II]

OOOPS !! 

I always get an extra warning when the clocks are about to change......For some reason (as I've mentioned before) the PC changes 'the hour' a day or two before the actual event.

Cheers - Phil