Make new figures conversions of TB line figures instead of Pendraken ones

[Leon]

I'm not quite sure how to respond to some of this, I suppose the obvious question would be which 10mm figures do you like from other manufacturers?  Or is there a particular sculptor whose work you like?  I'd consider our sculptors to be some of the best working in this scale and I've always thought that our figures compare very well with any other manufacturer out there. 

The AWI, the League of Augsburg, the Aztecs, Greeks, etc are all fantastic little figures and I don't think anyone else has put out better ranges in 10mm?  The Van Dyck ranges are a level above ours but the time spent sculpting those wouldn't be viable for a business to run and they're a couple of mm taller than other 10mm's.

The fantasy are probably the most rushed out and "that'll do"(as if fantasy figures don't have to look good) of the lot, but there isn't a single pendraken figure that comes close to making me think "that's a really nice figure". And most new figures just look like conversions of the existing ones. The medievals and dark age are pretty poor, but when i see previews of figures of other periods, no noticeable difference there either. The diversity of figures is amazing- it's a pity the figures are disappointing - and i've long since given up expecting any improvement in new releases.

This seems odd as the Fantasy have got some of the most detail of all our ranges?  The extra work that Techno put into them was fantastic, down to runes carved into Dwarven axes and there's even some graffiti on the Wood Elf tree stump I think.  The Medievals and Dark Ages ranges are much older now and will probably get the revamp treatment at some point, as I'm not completely happy with them myself, especially the Norse.

... and it's pretty clear Pendraken's business model of churning out a wide range of not very good figures beat the TB Line's of spending a long time making really great sculpts, but I can't pretend Pendraken's own line of figures have ever inspired me much.

Again, we've never said that anywhere and that's clearly not our business model.  We've spent years fine-tuning the sculpting team to get the best people we can and we've spent £1000's replacing ranges that we felt weren't up to standard.  If the model was just to churn them out regardless of quality then we'd never have bothered replacing those figures for a limited return on the investment.

[Nick the Lemming]

Leon, at this point I think you're wasting time responding to someone who's frankly speaking bollocks.

[hammurabi70]

Leon, at this point I think you're wasting time responding to someone who's frankly speaking bollocks.

But then customer goodwill is the most important asset of a business and the most valuable customer is the one who voices their complaints because then you know what is wrong. I made a comment on the 6mm Yahoo group about the H&R WWII infantry, which I thought were old and tired, having been first cast in the 1970s; it seemed to have a galvanising effect.  No doubt Leon will take a view.  Personally I am here for the Korean range because everyone I spoke to said that Pendraken was THE range to buy; so far I have no complaints and can confirm the quality and may diversify into other periods.  Presumably if there are better products people will adjust their purchasing accordingly and sales figures will show the result.

[Chad]

Nick

My sentiments exactly. Leon, Nil Bastardum  Carburundum.

[Ithoriel]

I think he's entitled to his opinion but it would not seem to be one shared by others here. I suspect Leon's sales are secure in the meantime.

I want some TBLine Islamics to round out my Haradrim Army, they are large enough to fit with other fantasy stuff I have. I wouldn't use them with my historical stuff because either they'd be seven foot tall or my current troops would be five foot tall.

[mollinary]

Nick

My sentiments exactly. Leon, Nil Bastardum  Carburundum.

To quote. The Toasters' album "Illegitimis non carborundum"!

[Dunnadd]

I think he's entitled to his opinion but it would not seem to be one shared by others here. I suspect Leon's sales are secure in the meantime.

I want some TBLine Islamics to round out my Haradrim Army, they are large enough to fit with other fantasy stuff I have. I wouldn't use them with my historical stuff because either they'd be seven foot tall or my current troops would be five foot tall.

I've bought a lot of Pendraken figures myself and I'm certainly not trying to get people not to buy Pendraken. I was just hoping to get figures with a bit more clearly defined detail and hat look a bit more impressive, though, as some posters have pointed out, that'd probably require a bit of scale creep to 12mm scale rather than pure 10mm, like with the TB Line figures

[Orcs]

I have never been able to believe that anyone would buy those figures from Warrior.

I bought some vikings once many years ago to see what they were like, as some of thier stuff is ok.  i still have them. they are lead weights in the hulls of my 20mm plastic tanks.

[Leon]

We always appreciate feedback, never any worries on that front.  I'm just not sure what the solution is here though, as moving to TB's size/style for future releases alienates everyone who buys our usual sculpts, so it's not really a viable move to look at.  We might look at converting some of the TB stuff into other Ancients/Middle Ages ranges though, that's an easier conversation to have with the sculptors.

[paulr]

Leon, I suspect the solution is to continue to produce high quality true 10mm figures

As you have indicated some of the older ranges will be reviewed in due course

Those in the market who want high quality true 10mm figures and exceptional service will continue to keep you and the team busy

Those who want high quality 12mm+ figures may have to look elsewhere

PS Dunnadd, thanks for taking the time to comment and provide some more detail on particular ranges

[WeeWars]

Perhaps the solution is to sell and promote the TB Line range as a different scale, if that is what they are. There is no useful comparison of different scales except to note the obvious as has been done in this thread: that larger scales can and should incorporate more detail. And, yes, there's every reason that smaller scales should appear chunkier.

12mm has its attractions and is gaining some interest, even in plastic. But we all know that as attractive as it might be to allow 10mm to morph into 12mm, 12mm might just as easily scale-creep to 15mm.

It might be better to remember why 10mm is such a good scale. And TB Line is just another, different good thing.

[Leon]

The thing there is that I don't think the TB's are 12mm.  I've stood them next to ours and the difference is minimal, it's one of the reasons we bought the ranges up.  If they'd been incompatible with ours then we wouldn't have bothered.

On the 12mm plastics, I've not seen those next to our figures yet but the WWII vehicles being produced are 10mm / 150th scale and match up with ours fine.  There's been a few pics posted on Facebook so far where they look almost exactly the same size. 

[Ben Waterhouse]

Leon, at this point I think you're wasting time responding to someone who's frankly speaking bollocks.

Wot he said...

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

The PSC 10mm Modern stuff is compatable with the Falklands range,,,,,so your Chefey is needed NOW Leon 

[mmcv]

The thing there is that I don't think the TB's are 12mm.  I've stood them next to ours and the difference is minimal, it's one of the reasons we bought the ranges up.  If they'd been incompatible with ours then we wouldn't have bothered.

I don't think TB are necessarily 12mm, they are a bit bigger and chunkier than the standard ranges in some of their proportions, but it's only really noticible with the cavalry. With the infantry it's pretty minimal and I've happily mixed TB infantry with Pendraken and other manufacturers on the same base without issue:

e.g.


As mentioned before, some things are a bit chunkier with TB, especially the spear shafts.

I don't mix the TB and Pendraken cavalry as the size difference of the horses is just a bit too much, unless you were mixing say a heavy knight on a large charger on a base with retainers or light troops riding smaller horses. Though actually most of my medieval cavalry is from MM, which sits somewhere between the two in size and chunkiness. Looks really well on separate bases though and not so far off in size that it looks wrong on the table the way full 12mm would.

Some cavalry pics I took for Paul when he was planning his 100YW project:





If I hadn't it all packed away I'd compare TB against the fantasy range, which is 12mm I believe?

[fred.]

I've got loads of the TB Islamics, and a few of the Teutonic medievals. I also have loads of Pendraken, plenty of Magister Militum, loads of GW Warmaster, and plenty of other 10mm figures, from all sorts of eras and ranges. One of the key things I have found is few manufacturers are fully in scale / size across all of their ranges. This isn't too surprising with the breadth of ranges and the age of ranges, and different sculptors. With 10mm a mm here or there is quite obvious - but then in 28mm this happens even more.

I found most of the infantry is pretty compatible between different 10mm ranges. The key standouts our Pendraken Fantasy and all Kallistra, which are 12mm. But there are differences in bulk - MM tend to be more bulky.

But on cavalry there are much bigger differences TB Line are big, some GW are big (eg Empire). MM tend to be small, but there are quite a bit of variance within ranges for all manufacturers on horse size. Some of the PD Elizabethan horses are small.

Ultimately when on the table these differences tend not to be noticeable.

Regarding TB line, they are very detailed very finely sculpted figures, but they are really hard work to paint, because of this. I've painted quite a lot of the ones I have, but far from all, and that is over many years.

Some of the new manufacturers are producing some very detailed 10mm fantasy figures now, but often they are big, because they are fantasy and are creatures they can be big, so there is more space for details.

I've recently bought lots of PD Sengoku Japanese, and these are great figures, they look good as individual figures, have a nice amount of detail, but still paint up quickly to give units.

[Gwydion]

+1 to Gwydion (and welcome to the Forum- I like your sense of humour).  For Forum newbys +1 is our equivalent of  social media "like".

Thanks Sunray.
I'm masquerading as a newby - joined 2013, I'm just a very slow poster - 1 a year currently. Two in quick succession means I should be back c2022 all being well.

'Social media?' Is that like a fax?

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

6.028 a day... 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

That all Will ?

[Nick the Lemming]

That all Will ?

It's a typo, that . should be a ,