The moment that I hate most in a battle

Started by FierceKitty, 06 July 2020, 01:12:30 AM

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FierceKitty

For me, it may be the realisation that I'm looking at the reason why I should have kept a second-line reserve, however small.

Yours?
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

flamingpig0

Quote from: FierceKitty on 06 July 2020, 01:12:30 AM
For me, it may be the realisation that I'm looking at the reason why I should have kept a second-line reserve, however small.

Yours?
It is when I realise that the dice Goddess has decided they fancy my opponent.
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Ithoriel

Realising I have kept a reserve for a future my army didn't have.
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Heedless Horseman

06 July 2020, 01:41:45 AM #3 Last Edit: 06 July 2020, 01:45:30 AM by Heedless Horseman
When, having got thinking about ACTUALLY DOING a, (solo), fight...I realise that I have only painted and finished less than 10% of the figures bought... with no artillery or cavalry assets and with a ratio of 3:1 in one sides favour!  :( Probably a good 'real world' scenario, really!  ;D
Sadly, ain't got time at the present.  :(
(40 Yrs ago. I should have been an Angry Young Man... but wasn't.
Now... I am an Old B******! )  ;)

FierceKitty

Quote from: flamingpig0 on 06 July 2020, 01:34:04 AM
It is when I realise that the dice Goddess has decided they fancy my opponent.

I thought everyone knew that even before the declaration of war!
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

FierceKitty

I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

paulr

When you realise those options you thought you had have all slipped beyond your grasp ~X(

Or the moment you realise what you should have done two or three turns ago #-o
Lord Lensman of Wellington
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Steve J

When you realise that your inital deployment is poor/wrong and it's highly likely you won't be able to rectify things before you're comprehensively defeated :(.

FierceKitty

Or as above, but the opposition have made a critical blunder which you realise is probably going to win the battle for them!
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

steve_holmes_11

Quote from: FierceKitty on 06 July 2020, 01:12:30 AM
For me, it may be the realisation that I'm looking at the reason why I should have kept a second-line reserve, however small.

Yours?

Serious question: Are reserves worthwhile?

My own experience shows that many games have mechanisms that blunt the value of a reserve.
* Reaction checks when friends break.
* Brigade morale, meaning the rearmost half / third of the force push off when the going gets tough (It never comes to the Triarii).
* Lack of (or heavily restricted) march movement rules meaning the reserve can't get to the gap.
* Unwieldy interpenetration rules reducing any "passage of lines" to a shambolic mess.

Which rules defy these popular conventions and allow a traditional reserve (Usually Veteran infantry) to behave as they did in the battle reports.


FierceKitty

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 06 July 2020, 07:28:13 AM
Serious question: Are reserves worthwhile?

My own experience shows that many games have mechanisms that blunt the value of a reserve.
* Reaction checks when friends break.
* Brigade morale, meaning the rearmost half / third of the force push off when the going gets tough (It never comes to the Triarii).
* Lack of (or heavily restricted) march movement rules meaning the reserve can't get to the gap.
* Unwieldy interpenetration rules reducing any "passage of lines" to a shambolic mess.

Which rules defy these popular conventions and allow a traditional reserve (Usually Veteran infantry) to behave as they did in the battle reports?


In my innocent little way, I prefer to trust reality. Friends should be less likely to break if supported (even in DBx, you can nibble at a flank attacker and extend the lifespan of the front line); morale for being supported should be steadier; mobile light units are a clear choice for such jobs; and rules, whether for interpenetration or for other functions, are written by people and can be rewritten by people.

You do point a useful finger at the value of being ready to negotiate with literate friends and work out house rules that give results resembling reality, as far as we can determine it.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

Steve J

When playing Honors of War, having a reserve is valuable and a must, to help plug gaps that appear etc. We ignore Brigade morale etc and go with what seems logical at any given point. It makes for, dare I say it, more fun and realistic games.

Dave Fielder

For me it's pressing send on the email to the PBEM Umpire with orders for the next set of moves.
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Steve J

QuoteFor me it's pressing send on the email to the PBEM Umpire with orders for the next set of moves.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

paulr

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 06 July 2020, 07:28:13 AM
Serious question: Are reserves worthwhile?

My own experience shows that many games have mechanisms that blunt the value of a reserve.
* Reaction checks when friends break.
* Brigade morale, meaning the rearmost half / third of the force push off when the going gets tough (It never comes to the Triarii).
* Lack of (or heavily restricted) march movement rules meaning the reserve can't get to the gap.
* Unwieldy interpenetration rules reducing any "passage of lines" to a shambolic mess.

Which rules defy these popular conventions and allow a traditional reserve (Usually Veteran infantry) to behave as they did in the battle reports.

Spearhead, If The Lord Spares Us, Volley & Bayonet, For King & Parliament, DBA (to some extent), the homegrown Napoleonic & WWII sets all allow reserves to be effective i.e. all the ground rule sets we use :)

Note that our reserves tend to be separate brigades/battalions so avoiding the "Brigade morale" problem described above

Reserves have to be deployed carefully so they are close enough to be of assistance but not close enough to be impacted by morale failures of the front line, particularly for Volley & Bayonet and For King & Parliament
Lord Lensman of Wellington
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steve_holmes_11

Quote from: mad lemmey on 06 July 2020, 09:58:54 PM
Or Black Powder...

I'd have thought the rule about all your brigades becoming demoralised when (forgotten fraction) are would mean that the reserves never get a go.

Unless you're wining...

steve_holmes_11

Quote from: FierceKitty on 06 July 2020, 08:04:56 AM
In my innocent little way, I prefer to trust reality. Friends should be less likely to break if supported (even in DBx, you can nibble at a flank attacker and extend the lifespan of the front line); morale for being supported should be steadier; mobile light units are a clear choice for such jobs; and rules, whether for interpenetration or for other functions, are written by people and can be rewritten by people.

You do point a useful finger at the value of being ready to negotiate with literate friends and work out house rules that give results resembling reality, as far as we can determine it.

I'm one of those odd folks who read a chunk of history, then read mostly wargame rules, and have recent;y returned to reading history.

I have a somewhat unique opinion.
A large proportion of the rules I have read do a better job of simulating the previous decade's wargame rules than they do the battle reports.

I still play a number of these rules, and quite enjoy the games.
I find them far more enjoyable since abandoming hope that I'll one-day see Friedland on my dining table.

Last Hussar

One of the things I like about Blucher is the fact that on their first move in a game a unit might be able to move 3/4 of the table width in the right circumstance (6x normal speed).  It means you can actually have reserves and not have to worry about them being too slow to be any use.
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FierceKitty

I've said it before, but it's relevant; for me the headache with reserves is that they contract the line and expose the flanks. :(
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.