Samurai rules

[YORSTONS]

Well folks, now we have the wonderful new range of samurai and buildings. What rules are you thinking of using, and what is peoples thoughts on basing.
Cheers in anticipation.
Steve.

[Leon]

We might have something coming later this year, but I don't have any proper timescales on it just yet.

[monkeynut]

Interesting!


🐵

[fred.]

We might have something coming later this year, but I don't have any proper timescales on it just yet.

Intriguing

What rules are you thinking of using, and what is peoples thoughts on basing.

I'm basing mine of 40mm squares, which is now my go to basing size for pre 1700 10mm figures. Rules wise I will look at Irregular Wars for small battles, and I am sure my Ashigaru and Samurai  will end up getting used with our home brew Fantasy rules too, which are good for larger battles. I don't think either of these sets will have any great Japanese warfare feel to them - but I don't yet know what that is. But two Osprey arrived yesterday (as birthday presents) so I will be more informed before too long.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Fred to get a feel for Samurai warfare get hold of a copy Steven Turnbull's book called Samurai

[mmcv]

Fred to get a feel for Samurai warfare get hold of a copy Steven Turnbull's book called Samurai

And watch some Akira Kurosawa samurai films, particularly Ran and Kagemusha for grand battles.

There's been discussions in a few places about the lack of good samurai rules lately I've noticed. There's also the scale of battle you want to go for. Battles could be pretty huge, especially later in the Sengoku Jidai. The earlier periods or smaller scale battles could probably work with most ancients/renaissance/pike and shot rulesets with a bit if tweaking. E.g if you like Warlord style rules there's something like this: https://www.warlordgames.com/rules-pike-shotte-samurai-army-list/

Or this Hail Caesar list I found somewhere https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nBdIBq1uReysH28KhoXqOilX7-ThWXpm/view?usp=drivesdk

Equally something in the To The Strongest! set could work too.

For larger scale battles I've been thinking about adapting BBB or home brewing something.

Been resisting the range so far as I've enough on at the moment but interested to see what Leon has up his sleeve...

[Scorpio_Rocks]

We use "Banzai" from 2d6 - very good at capturing the flavour of the period

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I use Mortiem et Gloriam

[FierceKitty]

Kurosawa had NO idea of tactics or how an army works.

[Ithoriel]

Kurosawa had NO idea of tactics or how an army works.

But an excellent eye for spectacle!

I wouldn't trust Kurosawa on tactics (his films aren't training films for Sengoku Jidai samurai after all) but if you want an insight into what massed samurai looked like they're a good start ... and an excellent watch as films too

[Raider4]

Kurosawa had NO idea of tactics or how an army works.

Replace "Kurosawa" with pretty much any other director's name and this statement still stands.

Edit: Yay, promotion!

[hammurabi70]

As per this post:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,18880.msg295768.html#msg295768


I am currently faced with choosing rules for my 6mm Baccus troops.  I found the following reviews helpful.


https://meeples.wordpress.com/2017/03/16/review-banzai/


https://meeples.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/review-killer-katanas-ii/


https://meeples.wordpress.com/2017/03/15/review-battles-in-the-age-of-war/


My choice might have fallen on Peter Pig's RFCM Battles in the Age of War but I am toying with the DBAesque The Age of the Country at War, published by Barrie Lovell in 1993; however, it is difficult to find.

Another idea to look it is Tenkatoitsu, details can be followed here: https://tenkafubu608971038.wordpress.com/2020/02/02/yamazaki-1582/

See:
https://www.thewargameswebsite.com/forums/topic/yamazaki-1582/
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/214296/tenkatoitsu

Additionally consider:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/122913/samurai-battles
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-724-commands-colors-samurai-battles.aspx

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Do you want me to ask Barrie if he still has a copy? 

[Big Insect]

We might have something coming later this year, but I don't have any proper timescales on it just yet.

As Leon states - we have something being worked on at present

I have played Samurai armies to a lot of rules in the past - from specialist sets - through to the larger commercial rules - such as Armati, WRG, DB, Art de la Guerre etc but have never really found anything that captures the flavor of the period. I'm a huge fan of the epic Akira Kurosawa films - Seven Samurai - Throne of Blood - Kagoshima - The Hidden Fortress and ultimately Ran. So I am looking for sweeping moves and bloody combat.

Lock-down has allowed some major reworking and much more solo play-testing to take place ...  and we are heading towards a final play-test copy shortly.
The army-lists are also under construction as I type this. The idea being to allow players to create forces that range from small but extremely effective and highly trained professional retinues - through to huge peasant rebel armies (Ikko-Ikki being a favorite of mine).

For those planning ahead - buying paining and basing your forces - basing will be 100mm x 50mm for 6mm-10mm-15mm figures - 120 x 60 for 20mm -28mm - 30mm+
There are some basing exceptions - around Artillery and Ninja formations - which will be 50 x 50mm or 60 x 60mm respectively (NB: Ninja are included for specific smaller scale scenarios and campaigns rather than larger battles).

The idea is to try to allow players to create big battles - so it is about spectacle and the 100 x 50mm bases allow for a lot of figures on a base.
So hopefully this will give you all the motivation to start buying and planning armies.

Mark

[toxicpixie]

I'm told Peter Pigs "battles in the age of warfare" are good - I've not played them myself though and like all PP rules they're likely chalk or cheese for people!

[Ithoriel]

I'm rather taken with the mechanisms in Tenkatoitsu and am stealing using them as inspiration for my own home-brew set.

[Nick the Lemming]

I'm rather taken with the mechanisms in Tenkatoitsu and am stealing using them as inspiration for my own home-brew set.

I take it you're familiar with this blog?: https://wargamesasp.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/6mm-sengoku-jidai-battle-with-tenkatoitsu/

[Ithoriel]

I take it you're familiar with this blog?: https://wargamesasp.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/6mm-sengoku-jidai-battle-with-tenkatoitsu/

Yes, thanks for the heads-up though.

I'm planning on using 3mm and largish clan bases. Though I'm currently diverted by 20mm sci fi for my tabletop RPG games. "Maintenance of the aim" is not one of my strong points

[mmcv]

As Leon states - we have something being worked on at present

I have played Samurai armies to a lot of rules in the past - from specialist sets - through to the larger commercial rules - such as Armati, WRG, DB, Art de la Guerre etc but have never really found anything that captures the flavor of the period. I'm a huge fan of the epic Akira Kurosawa films - Seven Samurai - Throne of Blood - Kagoshima - The Hidden Fortress and ultimately Ran. So I am looking for sweeping moves and bloody combat.

Lock-down has allowed some major reworking and much more solo play-testing to take place ...  and we are heading towards a final play-test copy shortly.
The army-lists are also under construction as I type this. The idea being to allow players to create forces that range from small but extremely effective and highly trained professional retinues - through to huge peasant rebel armies (Ikko-Ikki being a favorite of mine).

For those planning ahead - buying paining and basing your forces - basing will be 100mm x 50mm for 6mm-10mm-15mm figures - 120 x 60 for 20mm -28mm - 30mm+
There are some basing exceptions - around Artillery and Ninja formations - which will be 50 x 50mm or 60 x 60mm respectively (NB: Ninja are included for specific smaller scale scenarios and campaigns rather than larger battles).

The idea is to try to allow players to create big battles - so it is about spectacle and the 100 x 50mm bases allow for a lot of figures on a base.
So hopefully this will give you all the motivation to start buying and planning armies.

Mark

Is the basing going to be single unit or mixed? And if single is the plan to have them coordinate to work together as "sonae" within the larger army? I'm thinking particularly where a lot of rules have a full unit of samurai where in many instances the samurai would be more of a support role amongst the peasantry rather than a cohesive unit. That works okay for smaller scale battles but doesn't always sit right in larger ones.

[Big Insect]

The intention is individual troop type based 'units' on a base.
So (for example) a base will consist all of Samurai with the same protection/armour level and same weapons (or a majority weapon).
But you could mix a small number of samurai into a majority ashigaru unit - to better represent higher quality ashigaru.

As per previous discussions on this thread - I don't believe (from my own research) that units operated in a mixed capacity - like European Pike & Shot (for example).
Interpenetration is possible and so you can replicate a situation where a unit armed with teppo shoots at an enemy and then a unit armed with yari interpenetrates forwards to protect them.
Likewise an evade move is possible - so a unit of teppo charged by mounted samurai can evade back through a yari unit to gain the defensive effect of the yari, but there is a risk that the 2 units might get caught by the charging mounted unit as they are interpenetrating and would then fight a a significant disadvantage.

Hope that helps?