Hussites

[FierceKitty]

There's been discussion on LAF about these chaps, and I'm curious - has anyone here had any luck trying to turn the Bohemian revolt into something gameable? Or are the Czechs simple unbeatable by any realistic rules?

[steve_holmes_11]

There's been discussion on LAF about these chaps, and I'm curious - has anyone here had any luck trying to turn the Bohemian revolt into something gameable? Or are the Czechs simple unbeatable by any realistic rules?

It has been a very long time since I played anything ancient/medieval.
Back in the day, War Wagons seemed to be a bit of a bolt on for most rule-sets, and one that lifted the characteristics of a Tiger tank and dropped it into the middle ages.

Realistic, I can't say.
It certainly didn't help that most contemporary opponents behaved like impetuous imbeciles.
Also distracting was their tendency to fight opponents such as New Kingdom Egyptians or Ancient Britons.

I believe various Mesoamerican forces and the best of the Roman legions might give them a run for their money.

[FierceKitty]

I was thinking of the real thing, not fantasy. But you've pointed out the problem; they faced enemies who made mistakes few of you viewing this post, gentle readers, would be guilty of (twice, anyway). Now if you're fighting Kutna Hora or Usti nad Labem, you want something that requires you to make command decisions available to the contemporary general; but a charge of expensive knights onto the waggon fort is doomed, and the Hussites have the advantage in artillery in most battles, and quite enough firepower to take down contemporary infantry. On the few occasions when guns favoured the crusaders, on the other hand, the battle would probably be an almost inevitable Bohemian defeat as their waggons were blown to pieces, with a lance charge to follow. Spectacular, but boring gaming.

The toughness of the waggon fortress was real enough. They won nearly sixty engagements.

[Big Insect]

I play Hussites occasionally - I have a large 28mm Hussite army. I also have a 15mm version waiting to be adapted for a Fantasy game.

It is generally hard to win games with them decisively, especialy with most popular commercial rules sets (FoG/DB/Armati/LaDG) and if they come across good quality enemy infantry armies - particularly in-period, such as Swiss or English or Burgundians they either get trampled over (the Swiss being particularly good at that) or shot to bits, either by massed Longbows or Artillery. Even an army like Holy Roman Empire or Hungarian with knights & MAA that can dismount will give the Hussites a good run for their money. Table-top Hussites (in my experience) usually win (marginally) against an opponent (player) that has not met them before!

The real issue is that most sets of rules still insist on allowing the Wagons to move about on the table - which is utter nonsense - even at Kutna Hora the one battle where the wagons all moved tactically together, they only did it to escape a surrounding Crusader army of much larger numbers, and did so when the Crusaders were unprepared to attack or pursue. They did not actually fight on the move or move tactically to surround an enemy.

For a long time, I have toyed with the idea of depicting the wagon burgs (forts) as a type of purchased terrain. The Hussite infantry, cavalry and non-wagon mounted guns are deployed within it. They suffer no penalties for being able to move around within the burg or to charge out of it, but an attacking enemy is significantly disadvantaged. The small tarnice type guns on the wagons behave a bit like infantry upgrades in BKC or CWC etc and the wagons provide defensive advantages if attacked by an external enemy. Once an enemy has broken into the burg, all advantages to the defenders are lost.

Muscovite wagon laagers with additional Gulay-Gorod wheeled mantlets are also an interesting challenge, and Chinese Ming war wagons onlyhave 2 large wheels and have their draft poles lashed under the next wagon in line - creating a really tight formation.

I'm not sure how War Wagons work in Warmaster, for example - I'll have to check that out.
But I do like the whole idea of a Hussite force, singing hymns whilst bashing the brains out of enemy knights 

[Terry37]

Have not particularly considered doing those armies, but can easily be done using HOTT, but that may not be historical enough for you.

Terry

[Raider4]

I'm not sure how War Wagons work in Warmaster, for example - I'll have to check that out.

Warmaster Armies PDF. You'll want the Kislev army section.

[FierceKitty]

Off-hand, I don't recall any engagements between English, Swiss, or Burgundian armies and the Hussites. I'll ask a Hussite friend if she knows of any, but don't hold out much hope; she's a dear, but not much of an historian.

Frustrating, isn't it? Their real enemies lost time after time using tactics no-one here would contemplate; as comments above indicate, a very attractive historical army seems doomed to find its action only in fantasy.

OK, another question: a waggon fort will clearly be in trouble attacked by dragons, but what special morale effect would these have on a very religious proto-Protestant army? If your enemy appears to have emerged from the pages of Revelations, does this scare the breeches off you, or do you look and cry out Podívej, bratři! Sama papežská děvka z Babylonu na nás útočí! Postavte se pevně a střílejte rovně, pamatujte Husa! ?

[FierceKitty]

If anyone tries to reverse translate the above, it does not really conclude with the stirring injunction to Remember the Goose!

[FierceKitty]

Not my own, but pretty anyway.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

They work well in MeG, not invincible, but a tough fight nevertheless

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

I suspect they are rather static as an army, which wont suit me too well.