British CS tanks query

Started by Steve J, 18 November 2018, 10:06:33 AM

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Steve J

After my latest game, I made the point that I needed to add some CS tanks to my British units so that they could use their HE against infantry. It was pointed out to me by PaulR that most CS tanks only shot smoke, yet in BKCII they all have an AP stat of 3/80.

Checking Chamberlain & Ellis, the following is interesting:

A9CS, A10CS, A13CS - 3.7" Mortar (howitzer) - smoke only

Tetrarch CS, Churchill I, Matilda II CS, Crusader CS - 3" Howitizer - smoke and HE

So from the above, it would appear that the A9, A10 & A13 should have their AP stats removed.

I also noticed that A9 & A10 have an AT stat of 1/40? Could any one enlighten me on this?
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Again if the A9, A10 A13 CS are what you refer to it's smoke only, and cant be used in BKC as there are no rules for tank fired smoke. As a local rule I'd allow a 5cm diameter smoke screen to be laid, using scatter dice as per artillery, but 1 per 40cm, rather 1 per 20 cm. The AT value is possible, i suspect its wille pete, which will burn.

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Steve J

Thanks for the response Ian.

There are optional rules for tank fired smoke in the back of the book, as well as Defensive Smoke, both on page 134.
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pierre the shy

19 November 2018, 06:36:58 AM #3 Last Edit: 19 November 2018, 06:40:16 AM by pierre the shy
I think you are correct about all the A9CS, A10CS and A13CS tanks that went to France with 1st Armoured Division to France in April 1940 only having smoke shells. While they could all carry small amounts of HE shells for their 3.7" howitzers no HE ammo made it to France in the end  :( HE was used in the early Desert battles against the Italians and Afrika Korps but the pre-war British concept of CS tanks did not stand up to the test of real armoured warfare very well.    

No other armoured formations in the BEF were equipped with A9's, A10's or A13's - all the rest (e.g. 4 and 7 RTR) had Vickers Mk VI Light, Matilda I or Matilda II tanks only and the Matilda II's 2pdr also didn't have any HE available  ???
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fsn

Quote from: pierre the shy on 19 November 2018, 06:36:58 AM
...the pre-war British concept of CS tanks did not stand up to the test of real armoured warfare very well.   
A question. How does the early PzIV with the short barrelled 75mm differ in concept from a CS tank?
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Orcs

It was supplied with HE shells to support the infantry. Not just smoke.

The Germans realised that to actually stop the enemy firing and not just make it harder for them to aim you had to eliminate them not smoke them out
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fsn

Yes. My impression was that the original CS concept included HE?
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Orcs

Quote from: fsn on 19 November 2018, 01:06:48 PM
Yes. My impression was that the original CS concept included HE?

I think the concept was that they would have HE, but I think they only had a few compared to the number of smoke rounds, but pierrre the shy's comment wouldf explain the lack of HE for the BEF.

While horrific, I wonder if someone at the war office considered using Gas shells ?



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paulr

There were plenty of Gas shells with the BEF in France, probably not the right shells for the CS howitzer
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Raider4

Centaur CS tanks were used by the Royal Marines on and just after D-Day, including firing from their landing craft to cover the landings.

Late war tank squadrons had two CS tanks in their TOE, either Sherman 105mm or Cromwell 95mm.  I assume they were used to fire HE, and not just smoke?

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Raider4

Quote from: paulr on 19 November 2018, 06:47:42 PM
There were plenty of Gas shells with the BEF in France, probably not the right shells for the CS howitzer

I think they were probably (mostly) for mortars?

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Dr Dave

Quote from: ianrs54 on 18 November 2018, 10:12:35 AM
Again if the A9, A10 A13 CS are what you refer to it's smoke only, and cant be used in BKC as there are no rules for tank fired smoke. As a local rule I'd allow a 5cm diameter smoke screen to be laid, using scatter dice as per artillery, but 1 per 40cm, rather 1 per 20 cm. The AT value is possible, i suspect its wille pete, which will burn.

IanS

I think this is a goos idea. I've read recently that HE for CS tanks in North Africa was 4 shells per tank. This is similar to what CR2 has nowadays, though they often gave all the smoke rnds to one CR2 in the troop in GW2.