Tell Techno.

[Heedless Horseman]

There are so many difficulties that many have to overcome or just live with.

Now, this is pure speculation with no factual basis or research...but...I wonder if, in some children, there may be a sudden moment in 'experience' when the brain just 'Locks' onto something..." Ah...THAT is how it SHOULD be!" And they may be stuck with that.. with learning/adjusting/re-training becoming a 'problem' that they do not want...and therefore, difficult? It certainly happens with animals such as Dogs and Horses...and, to an extent, with 'Adults'! 

It is just a thought, but many child's picture books have 'Flat' illustrations. They are easier for a young mind to recognise...but, are also cheaper to illustrate...and more 'appropriate' to small children. Is it possible that simple, Flat images could become 'normal' at some point in development? With adjustment to 3D a difficulty?

This could be absolute crap! However, back in the 60's ... (from what I REMEMBER!), a lot of books for small children had well illustrated pictures. Think:  Beatrix Potter, Enid Blyton and old Ladybird books, etc.! The 70's seemed to change to a 'simple' illustration style in many instances.  As an older small child, I was praised for MY drawings showing 'perspective'...which I attributed, (AT THE TIME!), to MY reading some of the 'better drawn' 'War' comics eg. 'The Victor!' LOL! (Sadly, I never progressed, lol.).

With the advent of modern  'computer' games, things could have changed again...with 'perspective and 3 dimensional movement'... though,  I rather hate to thing what V.R could do to a mind. 

I hope that this does not offend anyone, and, as I say, there is no 'fact' to it...but, just wondering?

[Techno]

You may well have something there.

I'll give you a 'silly' example of how I might struggle.

Leon's decided that he wants me to make a new range which have alligator heads. (He hasn't...I'm just making this up.)

In my mind, I can picture the alligator, but if I try and make the model there and then, I'd go completely waffy......So I'd need to find a few pics on the net, that I can keep referring to.
Top view/ side view/ 3/4 view etc, etc.....

Even with these pics in front of me, I'll still struggle to comprehend how I need to proportion the head in 3D......And I know I shouldn't.
It might look spot on from the side...straight away....but I'll be lucky not to have to mess around a few times from this point on.

Can get very frustrating, at times.

Give me a decent model of said alligator as a reference...and I'll barely have any trouble at all in 'copying' it to what ever scale is needed.....Go figure ! 

Cheers - Phil

[FierceKitty]

So get a real one, you silly man. America's full of them.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

No dont - Wales has enough dangerous animals with all the big cats wonderinmg around.

When are the alligators commimg out Phil, same time as the ducks ?   

[O Dinas Powys]

You may well have something there.

I'll give you a 'silly' example of how I might struggle.

Leon's decided that he wants me to make a new range which have alligator heads. (He hasn't...I'm just making this up.)

In my mind, I can picture the alligator, but if I try and make the model there and then, I'd go completely waffy......So I'd need to find a few pics on the net, that I can keep referring to.
Top view/ side view/ 3/4 view etc, etc.....

Even with these pics in front of me, I'll still struggle to comprehend how I need to proportion the head in 3D......And I know I shouldn't.
It might look spot on from the side...straight away....but I'll be lucky not to have to mess around a few times from this point on.

Can get very frustrating, at times.

Give me a decent model of said alligator as a reference...and I'll barely have any trouble at all in 'copying' it to what ever scale is needed.....Go figure ! 

Cheers - Phil

Again, I think this may be normal: think of the need for anatomical models and actual cadavers for doctors and dentists: the best anatomical drawings in the world can't give you a feel for the full three dimensionality of a body and how it all fits together.

I'm sure, as someone who's very familiar with horses and dogs, you'd find them straightforward to sculpt because you know how they feel in 3D.  Alligators, less so  

You must remember, as a photographer, how sometimes you get a perfectly decent picture of someone and yet can't recognise who it is just "because"!

[fsn]

As a young man I took a course in Geometric and Engineering Drawing. Part of the course was converting a 3/4 view of a vehicle into side and front elevations.

I think this helped my "eye". Pity it's not the "eye" I use for painting. 

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

When teaching 3d shapes and theory of nets to kids, I always get them to pick up the imaginary shape, turn it, unfold it etc...

There is a theory there are 3 types of learners, visual (needs to see), auditory (needs to hear) and kinaesthetic (needs to hold).

Most people are a combination of two factors. Most boys are visual kinaesthetic, which is why talking at them in a lesson with no other input is bad news.
Most girls are auditory visual learners, see it and listen to it

I was tested and came out as auditory kinaesthetic. Needs to listen to music and take it apart at the same time (nightmare fiddler in class, but always got the answer) probably explains why I prefer to paint with the radio on, which Mrs D cant stand, she's visual kinaesthetic, while Mrs D works on her sewing with the tv on, I can't cope with visual distractions)

[Steve J]

Having worked in the design industry, there are some people that can easily translate a 2D image into a 3D model (such as myself), with others that couldn't do it their life depended on it; graphics designer being a case in point. Our son who is autistic is a visual learner pure and simple. Any other ways of learning simply do not work for him.

[Heedless Horseman]

I'll give you a 'silly' example of how I might struggle.

Leon's decided that he wants me to make a new range which have alligator heads. (He hasn't...I'm just making this up.)

In my mind, I can picture the alligator, but if I try and make the model there and then, I'd go completely waffy......So I'd need to find a few pics on the net, that I can keep referring to.
Top view/ side view/ 3/4 view etc, etc.....

Even with these pics in front of me, I'll still struggle to comprehend how I need to proportion the head in 3D......And I know I shouldn't.
It might look spot on from the side...straight away....but I'll be lucky not to have to mess around a few times from this point on.

Can get very frustrating, at times.

Give me a decent model of said alligator as a reference...and I'll barely have any trouble at all in 'copying' it to what ever scale is needed.....Go figure ! 

Cheers - Phil

Sounds pretty normal to me. 
I once tried to carve some pre-Dreadnought ship hulls from balsa. Plan outline fine but once I tried to do the side elevations...scrap, scrap, scrap. Getting both views to 'marry' just didn't work out.
Vaguely remember some early 1/76 AFV scratch builds from mags..."now we have the hull, just carve and sand down the turret from balsa wood sawn to rough shape..."! 

With figures  I can imagine that getting the 'right' look from one aspect would be fine...turn it...and , maybe also fine, but it will snap!!! And, trying to work to a constant scale in 10mm...'scale creep' is there for a reason! LOL. You know we appreciate your work, so don't get cut up about it! 
Rather think that 'classical statue sculptors' may have worked from a 'sketch' but had live models brought in to 'play' with  !

[Steve J]

Sculpting is a skill in itself and whilst I can make models with my eyes shut as it were, I can't sculpt to save my life!

[Techno]

Rather think that 'classical statue sculptors' may have worked from a 'sketch' but had live models brought in to 'play' with  !

I think that has to be true  !

I sometimes thing that they 'cheated' by making some sort of plaster cast of real people....Without suffocating them !

Having said that, there's one bit of classical sculpture that I've always wanted to 'have a go at' as a miniature. The Laocoon by Agesander.
Only problem there, is that I'd have to have an almost infinite amount of time to get anywhere remotely near it.
Maybe if I'd started about 40 years ago........

Cheers - Phil

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Marble sculpture works in the flat.
Each side of the block would have a flat drawing sketched out on it, then the sculptor would carve it down until the sides met.
Bronze wax sculptures, where you build up, that's the hard game that you continue the tradition of... thats witchcraft

[Orcs]

No Idea how you create such amazing figures, especially if you have a hard time envisioning 3d   

I have just sculpted ( i use the word sculpted in the loosest possible way) an octopus for our Venetian Frostgrave campaign and while it has 8 tentacles and a blob for a head its more representative than looking like an octopus.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I just tried screeding the kitchen wall, I hate 1:1 scale!

[Last Hussar]

its more representative than looking like ...

Pretty much how you interpret rules, I believe.

[Orcs]

Pretty much how you interpret rules, I believe.

of course 12 dice , 18 dice whats the difference ??

[Techno]

I just tried screeding the kitchen wall, I hate 1:1 scale!

Why haven't you posted the piccy you sent me, Will ?

No Idea how you create such amazing figures, especially if you have a hard time envisioning 3d   

That's very kind, Mark,  but I really DO think most folk could do it. I've just had an awful lot of practice.
There are some shapes that I've 'done' SO often, that I DON'T have to think about what I'm doing.....I know the rough shape to slap onto the model, and work from there.
Once the rough shape is on the model..I'm fine.
I've 'cheated' in the way I've made some models...Not dissimilar to the way Will was describing how marble was worked.

Cheers - Phil

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Because it's a wall... 

[Techno]

 

[Techno]

Is there anyone here who understands digital radio signals ?

Had something most odd happen for a while this afto'.....Which had me going "Eh ?"...."this doesn't make sense." 

Cheers - Phil