ECW project - For King and Parliament

[Ithoriel]

Lowlander though I am, I'll say that a full plaid is length of tartan cloth that is wrapped around the waist, draped over the shoulder and fastened at the front with a brooch.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Those are brilliant

[Womble67]

Brilliant as always

Take care

Andy

[d_Guy]

'English' Painted and based
    752 Foot
    318 Mounted
      15 Guns
1,085 Total

The quantity and quality continue to amaze!
In the same period I have managed one (1) 10mm, single arch stone bridge.

[pierre the shy]

Lowlander though I am, I'll say that a full plaid is length of tartan cloth that is wrapped around the waist, draped over the shoulder and fastened at the front with a brooch.

OK I have been educated 

Paul was a bit anxious about depicting tartan in 10mm but has come up with a simple but effective method which looks effective. Each figure will be unique, as Westmarcher pointed out this was well before the "invention" of official clan tartans. 

[d_Guy]

In Prebble's book The King's Jaunt (George IV visit to Scotland in 1822), it relates that Sir Walter Scot send off to all the lairds a request for an example of their "tartan". They apparently grabbed the first thing they could find that resembled a pattern and sent it in. English tailors took it from there, doing a marvelous job of "tarting" them up.

Incidently I used various approachs to painting mine, the best being 0.25 Pentel pens in various colors. I don't have Paul's skills (or tenacity) so he will likely develop a better approach.

[paulr]

Outstanding as always! 

I'm guessing you're adding a new pole to the foot standard bearers to fit the flags? Don't think flags that size will fit on the standard model.

I cut the existing pole and add a bit of wire in the flag between the two parts of the existing pole
Not as strong as adding a new pole but a lot less effort
Any repairs will hopefully only involve replacing the flag

[mmcv]

I cut the existing pole and add a bit of wire in the flag between the two parts of the existing pole
Not as strong as adding a new pole but a lot less effort
Any repairs will hopefully only involve replacing the flag

Yeah, I was considering doing something similar myself, have models lined up with different flag sizes trying to decide on what to do!

[mollinary]

I cut the existing pole and add a bit of wire in the flag between the two parts of the existing pole
Not as strong as adding a new pole but a lot less effort
Any repairs will hopefully only involve replacing the flag

And I thought I was the only one to do this! 

[Westmarcher]

If I'm understanding this procedure correctly ..... me, too! ....... but utilised to avoid painting the cast-on flags that you get with Pendraken's Prussian SYW infantry standard bearers (both the Austrian and Prussian cavalry flags were murder to paint by the way - has anyone seen how ornate some 18th Century flags are? ..... Leon .... never, ever do this to us again).

When it came to doing the Prussian infantry flags, I therefore gave painting the cast-on flags, a body swerve and ordered extra Prussian Grenadier officers with pole arms (these wear bicornes, by the way) and (I think) followed a similar technique (except I used cut down pikes from some Irregular Miniatures figures I had purchased instead of wire).

Having said all of that, for figures that don't have cast-on flags, do you know you can now get some flag manufacturers to reduce the size of flags to your own specifications to fit the flag pole the miniatures manufacturer presents you with? For example, I was able to recently acquire some customised flags (size wise) from Wargames Designs for some 15mm Peter Pig figures which met my specifications exactly.

[mollinary]

Yes, I know you can do that, and I have on occasion got flags custom made to fit the pole. But there are occasions when the poles just are not big enough. To get what is, for me, the right look for ECW Foot colours, I need a flag which is at least 15mm  on the staff. Given the need for the finial at the top, and an mm or so space next to the hand to allow for flash, moulding problems etc, then sometimes the cut is the easiest way forward. Again, personally, the flag is an absolutely key aspect of the look of an infantry unit, and I would not sacrifice it by having a small flag, just to fit the moulded pole. I am by no means an advocate of the 'League of Augsburg' style huge flags, but all our miniatures have an element of caricature in them, small figures are rarely completely anatomicaly correct. Indeed, if they were, they would often look rather odd. Given this fact, I am more than happy to accept the slings and arrows which come from having flags slightly larger than exact scale size! 

[Westmarcher]

Sorry, didn't mean "you" as in you specifically, Andy - from the little I know about you (which is mainly from your contributions to this forum), it was of no surprise to me that you are sufficiently geeky to have already gone down that route(!)    It was information intended for the general readership. Totally agree with you regarding (Barry Hilton's) League of Augsburg flags, btw - in my opinion, they are ridiculously too large - don't fully understand it (and obviously not just me) - suddenly all efforts to be historically accurate in every other aspect of the period, the figures, the uniforms, etc., go out the window on a whim.* Still, it's his toy soldiers and he can do what he likes.

* not intended to otherwise denigrate Barry's contribution to wargaming in that era which is otherwise excellent (imo). 

[mmcv]

Yeah, a 10mm square flag just about fits onto the ECW pole but looks a tad small in proportion to the overall unit. The flags obviously add a lot of character to the unit so whilst you don't want it to look cartoonishly large, being slightly larger than strict scale gives you the character without looking ridiculous. I'm guessing Paul's are maybe 11 or 12mm from the pictures? The poles and pikes on the ECW range are all a little short for proportion anyway so going a little bit out out of proportion on the flags isn't so big a deal. So long as it looks right on the table!

[d_Guy]

FWIW when I did my Flodden flags I wanted them larger than the Pendraken flag sheet (and on linen paper). Got permission from Leon to copy, upsize and reprint them - believe that I bought an extra set as "royalty payment", but not at Leon's request. I am slowly upsizing my ECW flags (which I make myself) and unless their design is exactly documented and/or iconic in the wargaming world I do what I like (including a few anachronisms).

[mollinary]

Sorry, didn't mean "you" as in you specifically, Andy - from the little I know about you (which is mainly from your contributions to this forum), it was of no surprise to me that you are sufficiently geeky to have already gone down that route(!)    It was information intended for the general readership. Totally agree with you regarding (Barry Hilton's) League of Augsburg flags, btw - in my opinion, they are ridiculously too large - don't fully understand it (and obviously not just me) - suddenly all efforts to be historically accurate in every other aspect of the period, the figures, the uniforms, etc., go out the window on a whim.* Still, it's his toy soldiers and he can do what he likes.

* not intended to otherwise denigrate Barry's contribution to wargaming in that era which is otherwise excellent (imo). 

Guilty as charged on the geeky front!    And I didn't take your comments personally. My point was that for me, it is the overall look of the unit which matters, and I would never let it be constrained by how many  (or few) mm the cast on flagstaff allowed me to use for my flag.

[paulr]

Yeah, a 10mm square flag just about fits onto the ECW pole but looks a tad small in proportion to the overall unit. The flags obviously add a lot of character to the unit so whilst you don't want it to look cartoonishly large, being slightly larger than strict scale gives you the character without looking ridiculous. I'm guessing Paul's are maybe 11 or 12mm from the pictures? The poles and pikes on the ECW range are all a little short for proportion anyway so going a little bit out out of proportion on the flags isn't so big a deal. So long as it looks right on the table!

Well guessed, I had to check when I got home, my foot flags are 12mm (6'2" at 1/150)

That seemed to me to be the appropriate compromise between scale and look

[paulr]

Jackets highlighted

Trousers base coated

Next batch of hedge bases cut and glued

[FierceKitty]

If I'm understanding this procedure correctly ..... me, too! ....... but utilised to avoid painting the cast-on flags that you get with Pendraken's Prussian SYW infantry standard bearers (both the Austrian and Prussian cavalry flags were murder to paint by the way - has anyone seen how ornate some 18th Century flags are? ..... Leon .... never, ever do this to us again).

When it came to doing the Prussian infantry flags, I therefore gave painting the cast-on flags, a body swerve and ordered extra Prussian Grenadier officers with pole arms (these wear bicornes, by the way) and (I think) followed a similar technique (except I used cut down pikes from some Irregular Miniatures figures I had purchased instead of wire).

Having said all of that, for figures that don't have cast-on flags, do you know you can now get some flag manufacturers to reduce the size of flags to your own specifications to fit the flag pole the miniatures manufacturer presents you with? For example, I was able to recently acquire some customised flags (size wise) from Wargames Designs for some 15mm Peter Pig figures which met my specifications exactly.

Same here. The SYW line is a joy to paint and looks as period-appropriate as Voltaire, but I had to use Irregular Miniatures standard-bearers for the plain flagstaff.

[lowlylowlycook]

Yep.  They are quite nice.

[paulr]

Trousers dry brushed

Stockings done