BBC Troy

[mollinary]

Was the 'real' Achilles black? Almost certainly not, and some people seem to get very upset about a black actor portraying him. 'Political correctness gone mad' and all that bollocks.

Was the 'real' Achilles blond-haired & blue-eyed (Brad Pitt)? Almost certainly not again, but no one bats an eyelid.

Can't see the difference myself.

What he said!

[fsn]

Dendra plate armour isn't it though.

I know, but I want to see actors trying to be all Brad Pit whilst dressed like a dustbin. More like those inflatable Sumo suits. 

The Dendra is supposed to have been quite good for riding in a chariot though.

[Ithoriel]

I've seen two reenactors in full Dendra style armour dueling and they moved pretty freely. Unsurprisingly, they said it was important to have the armour made exactly for you. No pret a porter Dendra, I guess.

They reckoned the main problem was that you couldn't throw a javelin or use a bow while wearing it.

Not, to be fair, something one necessarily expects to see looming out of the haar on a damp, chilly Sunday morning in Edinburgh but there were regular groups of Dark Age, Medieval and Fantasy re-enactors* on the Links in good weather.

Two slightly soggy but surprisingly cheerful young ladies were acting as umpires and squires.


*I realise "re-enactor" is something of a misnomer in relation to Fantasy but you know what I mean

[Leman]

I note that that bloody BCE crap is creeping in instead of AD. What a load of politically correct rhubarb. What about respecting our own culture. Far more important than what degree of brown Achilles was.

[fsn]

I've seen two reenactors in full Dendra style armour dueling and they moved pretty freely.

They reckoned the main problem was that you couldn't throw a javelin or use a bow while wearing it.

Now that's interesting. I always assumed that Dendra was build for a chariot warrior - pretty impervious, but once off the chariot couldn't move very well. Also surprised that the javelin was unusable. I would have thought that was pretty much a pre-requisite.

Ithoriel, you have proved the utility of the forum as an educational tool. Thank you.

[Jim Ando]

Whats BCE stand for. Obviously a new version that doesnt  upset some imaginary part of the population that probably couldnt give a s**t anyway.

Jim

[fsn]

Before the Common Era.

The Common Era starting, coincidentally, in the same year Jesus was supposed to have been born. 

After JC's birth, we have Common Era (CE)

[Raider4]

So, it's a bit like GMT, which we MUST. NOT. USE. anymore.

Instead use UTC, which just happens to be exactly the same . . .

[Jim Ando]

The common era. What the hell does that mean. Who thought thay one up.

[Leman]

Again a new one on me, and again a kick in the teeth for British culture, historical and scientific. It's not called GREENWICH mean time for nothing. Next you'll be telling me the Americans captured and deciphered the enigma code in WWII ( sorry, the second war of Europe's eternal shame, because the rest of the world is such a tolerant and peace loving place).

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Anyway...
Back on topic...
Dendra Armour...

[SV52]

Back on topic?

The subject of the OP was the BBC's upcoming programme surely   

[Steeleye]

The last page or so of this topic is a good example of why I don't contribute to the forum very much, if at all.

[fsn]

My whole point about blokes flaling about in Dendra armour like something in "It's a Knockout" has been scuppered by Ithoriel's insistance on bringing facts to the matter.  

I don't think I'll be watching. Although I enjoyed "The Musketeers", "Merlin" was aimed at children and "Atlantis" was just silly. I suspect there will be lots of CGI, lots of heaving busoms, and lots of dialogue we could probably write greats wads of here*. From the clip it seems that tactics consist entirely of the charge and all formations dissolve into single combats - a la "Batley Townwomen's Guild presnets the Battle of Pearl Harbour".

Not only that, but we all know how it will end.





* Dialoghue bingo for those who'd like to play.
"Coward. Stay and hide behind the skirts of your Spartan whore."
"It is the will of Gods that I go."
"No, you can't borrow my armour, Patrocolus."
"Mighty Zeus, I beseech thee."
"You may be a soldeir of Troy, but you are also a husband."  
"Not another cunning plan, Ulysses!"
"Oh, what cruels fate awaits me -only the Gods know".
"Ajax, you're on kitchen cleaning duty - yes, both of you."
"May Hera guide my spear" - (pick any diety and weapon combo)
"Oooh! A big horsey!"



   

[DanJ]

Looks like it might be an interesting show, given the screening time I suspect it's more likely to be like Rome than Merlin I also suspect it's the BBC seeing if they can compete with Game of Thrones for the adult fantasy sex and violence audience.  The short clips of battle look suitably confusing and dust choked.

On a more gamey note, one of my favourite Warmaster Ancients armies is the Heroic Greeks, lots of simple foot with a nice mix of light chariots.  It can also include a sub general beafed up to 'Heroic' status, basically getting a couple of extra attack dice, mine either fights like Brad Pit (hooray) or Orlando Bloom (booooo), which makes like interesting. 

[Leman]

Not having seen a clip as yet (I mostly watch streamed programmes, including player, and yes I do have a licence) I would haver thought that the enormous shields used at that time would have made linear tactics a must. Unless of course Auntie decided great big shields were too expensive.

[Ithoriel]

The guys I saw looked more like this than like fsn's "man-in-a-dustbin."

Not having seen a clip as yet (I mostly watch streamed programmes, including player, and yes I do have a licence) I would haver thought that the enormous shields used at that time would have made linear tactics a must. Unless of course Auntie decided great big shields were too expensive.

By the time of the Trojan War tower shields hade been replaced by smaller shields, armour was less encumbering and spears shorter.



I'm expecting the Beeb to have troops in something like the "Musketeers"/ "Vikings" style fantasy leather armour rather than anything Late Bronze Age but if it doesn't play too fast and loose with the Homeric epics I'll no doubt watch it.

Heck, I watched Spartacus and enjoyed it ... so clearly I have no aesthetic taste whatsoever

[Ithoriel]

I still think the Wooden Horse was a conventional, Late Bronze Age, Middle Eastern siege tower with ram and boarding ramp. Having it dragged towards the walls by enemy Trojan prisoners would explain the idea that the Trojans brought it into their own city. By the time the story gets back to Greece, where people have probably never seen such a thing it is completely garbled and "hey presto" the modern myth is born.

I still want to see myth depicted in "Troy."

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Do you think they will do all 10 years in one series, or just the juicy bits?

[fsn]

I'm going for

"Hi, I'm Paris, and you're gorgeous. Run away with me!"
"OK".

Ten years later

...



To be fair the first 9 years of the siege seems to have been so boring that Homer didn't much write about them.

Unless there's 9 books out there yet to be found?