Hanoverian SYW cavalry flags

[Zbigniew]

Does somebody have any reference about how Hanoverian horse regiments flags looked like?
I have ever seen only one Hanoverian dragoon flag and this was from a painting from year 1735 (painting of military parade in Bemerode).
It was white with a few horizontal lines in red (which was a facing colour for this regiment).
I think I will paint it this very way if I dont find any information.
Any ideas?

[nikharwood]

What about the ones here: http://www.warflag.com/flags/syw/sywhanover.shtml - unless those are all infantry?

[Zbigniew]

What about the ones here: http://www.warflag.com/flags/syw/sywhanover.shtml - unless those are all infantry?

Yes they are all infantry. Hanoverian infantry flags are much easier to find in the net (they are at kronoskaf site for example).
As for cavalry it is more difficult. Kronoskaf (project syw site) has only one such flag for Hanoverian horse granadier guards, but
I dont paint this regiment unfortunately.

[nikharwood]

I've had another quick scoot-round but can't find anything...

[mollinary]

Pengel and Hurt have a booklet which illustrates Hanoverian cavalry flags as well as infantry ones.  Don't have it with me at present, but I'll try and look it out to get the correct title.

Mollinary

[Zbigniew]

Pengel and Hurt have a booklet which illustrates Hanoverian cavalry flags as well as infantry ones.  Don't have it with me at present, but I'll try and look it out to get the correct title.

Mollinary

thanks, this would be very helpful

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

Woods' 'Armies of the Seven Years War Vol 1' has a table with some Hanoverian cavalry standards listed.

Horse: White King's Colour, coloured regimental colour. I've used the names of the inhabers of 1758 as a guide.

Horse
1CA Sporcken - K: White, gold braid, arms of England, motto below of 'Dieu et Mon Droit'; R: White field
1CB Hesse   - K: White, silver braid, arms of England, motto below of 'Dieu et Mon Droit'; R: Yellow field
2CA Bremer - K: White, GR within a garter, motto below of 'Dieu et Mon Droit'; R: Green field
2CB Hammerstein K: White, white horse in a red ground in a garter, motto below of 'Dieu et Mon Droit'; R: White field
3CA Grothaus K: White, gold braid, arms of England, motto below of 'Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense'; R: Red field
3CB Hodenburg K: White, silver braid, arms of England, motto below of 'Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense'; R: Red field
4CA Walthausen - K: White, GR within a garter, motto below of 'Nec Aspera Terrent'; R: Blue field
4CB Breitenbach - K: White, white horse in a red ground in a garter, motto below of 'Nec Aspera Terrent'; R: Blue field

No source is given - it could be Pengel & Hurt. A TMP message at http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=169923 gives some possible sources.
The numbering of units dates from after the SYW and the symmetry of colours is possibly a bit suspicious.

Regards

Edward

[Zbigniew]

kustenjaeger, THANK YOU!
I have just finished paintiing Hodenburg regiment (Pendraken British Horse Guards green stuff conversion).
Is it this design for this regiment's standard which I found in google:

[maciek]

It's not so easy as Kustenjager described.
In P&H description of standards took 5 pages.
Generally:
Cavarly standards were quadrangular, with fringes.
Thicks floral ornament (called "braid" in the book) goes along the border of flags.
King's colours were white, regimantal - different colours. Obverse could be different than reverse.

Hodenburg (3 C-B) standard is described as:
King's colour:
obverse - white with gold braid, the arms of England with motto below "HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE"
reverse -  enwined "GR"
Regimental colour red field
obverse - white horse within a garter
reverse - column with scales with balanced position, upon a column a drawn sword, below a trophy of arms, motto on scroll below: PRO LEGE ET GREGE

Motives descrived above are also illustrated on black-white drawing.

[Zbigniew]

Thanks Maciek!
I could predict it would be something that complicated. Exactly in Hanoverin style.
Would I be wrong if I say It is the most difficult SYW army to paint?
But it is fun, too 

[maciek]

Here are some pictures (all drawn by me)

General layout of the standard


obverse motives


reverse motives

On different flags details could differ, e.g. scales could be unbalanced, there could be no scroll etc.
It's all described in P&G.

I wish you good luck with this standard in 10 mm   

[Zbigniew]

Maciek. These drawings are very nice!
I would have to simplify them somehow for 10mm though (I am not Pawel  ).
nevertheless, thanks!

[Pawel Chrzanowski]

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Hanoverian_Army 

[Zbigniew]

Thanks Pawel, I know this exellent site as my own pocket. Unfortunately there are no Hanoverian horse flags there. No problem, Maciek has helped me with it alrerady.

[Hertsblue]

Can I belatedly say that I have a book called "The Hanoverian Army During the Seven Years War" by Joachim Niemeyer and Georg Ortenburg, published in Copenhagen in 1977, which has a reproduction of the original sketch of the Hodenberg colour, which confirms the P & H design. The original sketch is apparently in the Historical Museum in Hanover. There is also a photograph of the original king's standard of the Alt Bremer Regiment of Horse, plus descriptions of all the other colours carried by those regiments that actually carried colours. If these are of any interest just say.