Time Commanders

[Zippee]

... but after watching the skirmish, it is no wonder the nellies were wasted as a wonder weapon. We know that, but did they? Doubtful.

I rather got the impression they lost control of the elephants and they just raced off - they were quite desperate to get some infantry support up with them.

And that represents two things I think the show could do a lot better:

a) describe the nature of the actual combatants - we know the elephants at Zama were the scrapings of the circus and working animals not combat elephants and were of dubious value. The impression however was given that they were wonder weapons - that's perpetuating myth, not good.

b) it's never really made clear how the command and control works - I think that because the captains didn't give a "hold order" to the elephants the AI took them off impetuously but I don't know. It's possible other troops may have had different defaults (or the same) but that's never made clear so the viewer never knows what the baseline is - most would expect the baseline to be "units stand still and fight /shoot if contacted / shot at" but is it?

And yes the twit playing Scipio was by far and away the most annoying entity on the show - and when you consider the host's The Grocer, that's a real achievement! 

[Steve J]

Watched about 15 minutes of ti and frnakly it just didn't grab me. I found it too bity and disconnected compared to the originals, IIRC.

[fsn]

I've not read any comments on this thread until I watched the program. My thoughts:

Good:
     * I like the idea of the 2 teams.
     * Graphics are much better than in the previous series.
     * The real life training

Bad:     
     * Greg Wallace looks like a demented parrot
     * The experts look like the parents of the bride at a shotgun wedding
     * Still don't get suffieicent of a feel of the battle from the screens.

Will I watch again? Probably. It would, IMHO be better with a proper table and real models. 

[toxicpixie]

Entertaining rubbish, with a smattering of vaguely historical pellets - watched it last night.

Greg Wallace not as annoying as expected, but the two experts were. Teams were both rubbish, although the wrestlers had shown promise initially they just let things get away and the legions did what legions do no matter how bad the commanders are

I'll catch the next, it's more amusing, representative and factual than Question Time, to be fair

[SV52]

Discovered on Rock, Paper, Shotgun site

'Gregg Wallace, by the way, is not just any old friendly BBC presenter rolled out for this. He's big into strategy games, going by years of tweets about crushing Napoleon: Total War, getting annoyed with Civ IV (imagine his face as he's beaten to a wonder by one turn!), not enjoying Total War: Rome II and trying Europa Universalis, and returning to Medieval: Total War. Though it seems unlikely we'll see him shouting "GIT GUD SCRUBS!" and grabbing the mouse to win Time Commanders himself.'

So that's how he got the job

[Luddite]

It would, IMHO be better with a proper table and real models. 

Indeed it would sir!

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Discovered on Rock, Paper, Shotgun site

'Gregg Wallace, by the way, is not just any old friendly BBC presenter rolled out for this. He's big into strategy games, going by years of tweets about crushing Napoleon: Total War, getting annoyed with Civ IV (imagine his face as he's beaten to a wonder by one turn!), not enjoying Total War: Rome II and trying Europa Universalis, and returning to Medieval: Total War. Though it seems unlikely we'll see him shouting "GIT GUD SCRUBS!" and grabbing the mouse to win Time Commanders himself.'

So that's how he got the job

Good lad!

[Westmarcher]

Unfortunately we war gamers are not the prime target audience for Time Commanders. Time Commanders was always a 'real time' computer game and it remains a computer game.  It's billed as a refight of some of the most significant battles from history in an innovative mix of genuine history and game show competition. It's played in 'real time' because it puts the teams under pressure and that makes for more exciting viewing (that's why I playfully suggested R.Lee Ermey would be a fun choice. Imagine him shouting insults and expletives in your ear whilst you're trying to keep a clear head and make the right battlefield decisions!)

Whilst Battleground has its nostalgia, slowly pushing toy soldiers around a table in a hushed atmosphere is snore time as far as main stream TV is concerned. Somehow that format has to be made more interesting, to make it fast, dynamic and compelling to watch - I don't know what will work - perhaps time-lapse photography to illustrate 'bursts' of action like an attack on a position or unit caught in line by cavalry, etc., expert discussion and a brief analysis of each action or series of moves, short but dramatic cgi or re-enacted action clips for dramatic effect and to set the scene before switching to the table, atmospheric sound effects and music, etc.? Considering the wonderful imagery film makers can now show on programs like Life on Earth, surely some of these close up techniques can be applied to the miniatures and scenery items also? 

Clearly, the programme is trying to reach a wider audience and not an audience of 'experts,' so a certain element of dumming down is of no surprise. I also wonder how much ends up on the cutting room floor to fit the prog into its one hour slot.

Anyway, although the next battle is Waterloo between a team of aquarium workers and a team of competitive archers(!)  , I will be tuning in nevertheless to see how the teams react, what the graphics are like and trying not to worry (too much!) about the irksome stuff.

[Ithoriel]

... trying not to worry (too much!) about the irksome stuff.

So that's basically trying to ignore the teams, the presenter, the experts and the travesty of history?

[Westmarcher]

Sam? Is that you? 

Actually, I like the wee expert guy (can't be bothered looking his name up) and, as I say, like to watch how the teams (people who, presumably, are not experts or wargamers) react.

[fsn]

Mike Loades?

http://www.mikeloades.com/

[Westmarcher]

Yes, Norbert. Thank you.

Well, I watched Episode 2, The Battle of Waterloo, between a bunch of archers (might as well have been from the Radio show) and three aquarium guys. Like most of us, I've read various books on Waterloo and I've also visited the actual battlefield. This incarnation of Waterloo was barely recognisable and lay somewhere between the actual battle and the Batley Townswomens' Guild's re-enactment of the Battle of Pearl Harbour. On reflection, it was just too big a battle for this show's one-hour format. Whilst the graphic depiction of columns, lines and squares was reasonably good, the game engine itself had its limitations (e.g., another game engine would have had infantry in the vicinity of enemy cavalry form square automatically).

The 'experts' were also disappointing this week, both talking about "a race to occupy the farms on the day which the Allies won." No. The Allies had fallen back to this position. They had already occupied "the farms" at least the day before the battle. I like Mike Loades but only for his slash, chop and stab era historical weapons expertise - historically, you were out of your depth here, Mike. As for the performance of the contestants, I always find that fascinating. Its always interesting to see how they cope under pressure and with an era of warfare they know nothing about. In this case they were like rabbits caught in headlights. The archer's commander was probably the best choice for her team whilst one of the aquarium's subordinate commanders should have been in charge of his. I wonder how I would perform. I think I would be able to be better but, I need time to think, to plan. I'd be looking for killing zones, dead ground to advance along etc., but whether I would be allowed such time for reconnaissance and planning is another matter. So, verdict overall was poor. Will I be tuning in next week? Er, yes. 

[fsn]

Haven't watched ep 2 yet. I have it recorded and ready to go ... but I'm not in a hurry.

I'm a big Mike Loades fan, but he seems so confined by the program. 

[toxicpixie]

Saw it last night, enjoyed it.

Ended as a mate said about all Total War battles - a scrum of exhausted units in the centre, feebly battering each other until one side finally collapses!

Nice looking but awkward to view map - I couldn't make out the ridgelines at all...

[fsn]

a scrum of exhausted units in the centre, feebly battering each other until one side finally collapses!