Master list for the new Korean War range - Input required!

[Sunray]

Thanks for all the advice chaps. I'll probably start with Hasting's book to get an overview of the period. There doesn't seem to be too many in-depth accounts of individual campaigns, or at least for the area I'm looking at (June-August 1950).

To be honest this is one subject were good ole Wikipedia does a reasonable job in terms of a good synopsis - and gives good footnotes worth following up.
Osan, Pyongtaek, Chochrwon Chonan, Chonui, and Taejon are all covered with OOBs.

[fsn]

The Dark Lord has received the images of the final mock up sculpts.  It is in his power to "post them on the forum" - Go on Leon - cheer up the troops!  

Friend Sunray opens a window on the war for me. I have always concentrated on the Commonwealth because a) they're not Americans and b) they used Centurions. There may be some "home team" bias there as well, for which I don't apologise, for the main reason is that, and I may have said this before, they used Centurions.

There is lots of stuff out there about the US in Korea: I remember being enthralled by the film "Pork Chop Hill" as a child, even though I knew nothing about the war itself. Most people in my experience think M*A*S*H is set in Viet Nam, and go on YouTube and there's hundreds of videos about the US in Korea.

Having said that, the contribution of the South Koreans is limited in most sources to "Yanks wouldn't give them tanks, got hit with walls of T34s, fought bravely but had to retreat in face of overwhelming odds". I realise I know almost nothing about the contribution of the South Koreans after the inital assault.

So, Sunray, could you recommend a readable source of the Korean War from the South Korean point of view?    


1) Yes, I know there were lots of other countries involved
2) Yes, I know the South Koreans didn't use Centurions

[Sunray]

No probs Nobby

I have to recommend Pank Sun Yup's  From Pusan to Panmunjon at around £5.  It is a no holes barred account from one of their best soldiers.  Techno based the South Korean officer sculpt on him (helmet, bins, reaching for radio)

I won't spoil it but would love to hear your comments

Cheers

James

[fsn]

Excellent!

Thank you.

[Dave]

I'll send the whole lot up to Leon in the next couple of days....When he's got the time to take some better photo's than my rushed shots, I'm sure he'll post them. 

Cheers - Phil

Do these pics help for thr Brits and Aussies in korea?

http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/25-photographs-of-the-korean-war

Dave

[Techno]

Ta, Dave.

Cheers - Phil

[fsn]

I'll just pop these here for Techno. Brits in Korea 1951


Are  they wearing puttees?

[Techno]

Thanks, Nobby.

Cheers - Phil

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Look like 1914 issue puttees to me.

[Sunray]

I would regard these images of the "long" putties as peculiar. Not representative of what was worn by first winter Brits, and I would tender the following explanation.

They remind me of photos I was shown by an old SAS trooper I served with.  He had been a "tree jumper" in 1948-56 Malaya Emergency and long puttees were issued to protect the ankles as they jumped with Irwins into the jungle. The SAS had a maroon beret at this point of their comeback!

Now it was also found that the long style puttee was excellent protection against leeches when knee deep in jungle streams or operations in the notorious Kuala Langat swamp , so were generally issued. This guerrilla war overlapped with Korea, and I have no doubt that when the first British troops arrived in tropical bush gear, some if not all  still had the long Malaya issue puttee.  These would have been useful in waterlogged trench conditions.

I would suggest we stick to (a) short gaiters or (b) long boots with ankle strap (41 Commando)- they have much wider application and proxy value.

[Sunray]

b]British[/b]
In tropical shirts, long trousers and bush hats (right side folded up)
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Bren MG, advancing
1 x Bren MG, prone firing
1 x HMG Vickers with separate loader
2 x Officers
1 x Radio Operator
1 x M20 3.5 bazooka with separate loader
1 x 4.2" mortar with 2 crewmen
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x Casualty

Attached is the provisional list Early Korean war Brits.

Supposing we were to sculpt the shirt outside the trousers and add a mix of berets to the bush hats ?  I ask for two reasons:
First we already have thee bush hat sculpts in the WW2 range- not a great seller ?
Secondly, the beret was worn in the Far East from 1945 onwards and would give an outstanding proxy range.
If you google Commando WW2 far east you get a nice image of Col Young & Co

[fsn]

Supposing we were to sculpt the shirt outside the trousers and add a mix of berets to the bush hats ? 

Hmmm. Far be it from me to disagree, but I don't see a lot of shirts outside the trousers. I'd prefer to see nicely tucked away shirts. If a choice, I'd prefer berets (or Tam o'shanters)to bush hats - though they would be useful for Aussies. 

Aussies


Define "early". First units in were the Middlesex Regt and Argyll & Southern Highlanders.

Argyll & Sutherland highlanders 1950


Middlesex Regt  Not the same kind of hat as the Aussies at all.


One for Techno. Middlesex Regt radio operator, but I don't know the date.

Some images here of Middlesex Rgt in berets and tropic shirts
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/event/aug-approximately-4-000-british-infantrymen-arrive-in-korea-52262904?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#sergeant-major-interviews-one-of-the-many-volunteers-for-service-in-picture-id2659366

Shropshire LI? July 51?



For the list ...

3 x Advancing with rifle
1 x NCO
1 x Bren MG, advancing
1 x HMG Vickers with separate loader
2 x Officers with SMGs?
1 x Radio Operator
1 x M20 3.5 bazooka with separate loader
1 x 4.2" mortar with 2 crewmen

[Sunray]

Well sourced Nobby.  The first units in from Hong Kong were in  tropical kit.  The Aussies wore/and wear the Campaign hat. Its their national costume.

"Shirts in" is barrack order in the far east.  Shirts out is the slacker order when in combat.  I can show you images of Royal Welch in far east,   shirts wet with sweat/monsoon rain and  open to the waist. 

Its Leon's train set- he sets the parameters - I just don't a costly range of figures that have limited appeal. We currently have three bush hatted figures that will work in WW2 range. Do we want all Korean early war so attired, or a mix with beret that gives options ?

[fsn]

So we're talking bush hat - not slouch hat? i.e. like this?


Sounds good to me. I'll probably mix in some cap comforters too. 



A shot from the excellent documentary "A Hill in Korea".


Image of a Centurion tank being given a drink.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

FSN,
Please, it's KSLI. King's Shropshire Light Infantry

[paulr]

Image of a Centurion tank being given a drink.

8^th Hussars still watering the horses perhaps 

[fsn]

FSN,
Please, it’s KSLI. King’s Shropshire Light Infantry

I stand corrected. 

8^th Hussars still watering the horses perhaps 

I think that's become one of my favourite Centurion photographs. 

[Techno]

So.....

What am I making next ? 

I make it that the 'groups' left are the Brits in tropical kit, and the two lots of the Chinese.
I THINK all the others will be completed by tomorrow.....I've just got the vickers m/g and his loader to do some final tweaks to.

Cheers - Phil

[Sunray]

So we're talking bush hat - not slouch hat? i.e. like this?

Yes, the "Digger" slouch hat is a proper hat,  the Brits wore floppy bush hats in the Far East from WW2 to early Korea, when the first units arrived from Hong Kong

On the onset of the first winter they received first, battle dress, ribbed sweaters and leather jerkins.  Then in came the popular hooded smocks & cap comforters, although we do still get berets

By summer of 51, the bush hat was back, and as the second winter approached, the gabardine combat jacket began to be issued - this was to become the M58 that was worn until the 1960s and the advent of DPM.


Sounds good to me. I'll probably mix in some cap comforters too. 



A shot from the excellent documentary "A Hill in Korea".


This is a great image of

[Sunray]

So.....

What am I making next ?  :-

I make it that the 'groups' left are the Brits in tropical kit, and the two lots of the Chinese.
I THINK all the others will be completed by tomorrow.....I've just got the vickers m/g and his loader to do some final tweaks to.
:-
Cheers - Phil

Early Brits do need to be done. The options for Leon  :-

(1) Bush hat and shirt tucked in

(2) similar figure with beret & shirt in
             
(3) perhaps a few in woolly pully sweaters with beret ? 

Or, a careful  mix of all three ? (I have opted for the shirt in as - with beret- it could be painted as WW2 battle dress ) Officers perhaps in the beret/SD cap and sweater?  A British officer in a sweater with web & revolver would have a long proxy life in command groups.  When I discussed the figure options with Phil, there was potential in a very British senior officer type for late WW2 & post war. 

And remember we have 4 figures already in WW2 range - 2 riflemen in bush hats, a bren gunner and sten in Digger hats.
I have used them in 1960s era bush war, and I know some have painted them up as French Paras in Indo China

All four are good for Korea !