LoA flag dimensions

[d_Guy]

This question concerns the English and Scots army flags for foot regiments. At first blush it seems that they retained the roughly 6' x 6 1/2' fly
of the ECW period. Does anyone have a different understanding? Looking at various modern illustrations ( where the ensign/officer is depicted ) they seem somewhat larger then equivalent ECW representations.

[Westmarcher]

I would be interested to know, myself. Presumably, on the lack of replies to-date, not an easy question to answer. I believe I once read that the flags Barry Hilton uses in his miniature units of the era (he makes or used to make his own) are, by his own admission, much larger than they should be. Barry is a big exponent of this era being the author of Beneath the Lily Banners, owner of Warfare Miniatures and 'operator' of of the League of Augsburg website (including the Fighting Talk forum) & blog. His ideas are therefore quite influential. As you will see from the following link, you can buy flags in various sizes including "realistic' size which is more in keeping with 28mm scale miniatures. So, is it possible that some illustrators have also taken his 'lead' as a guide? 

http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/more-french-flags-from-quindia-studios.html

Anyway, my limited resources on the subject (Haythornthwaite's "The English Civil War 1642-165" and Gush's "Renaissance Armies 1480-1650") agree with you on the most commonly used infantry flag dimensions in the ECW. I also understand that English/British flag sizes remained relatively static - i.e., roughly 6' 6" square - up until more modern times (regimental colours are now much smaller). The only thing nagging me is Barrell's Regiment's Colours in the National Museum of Scotland - it's been years since I've viewed them but I have this vague memory of being surprised by how large they were. Are they actually larger or was I simply comparing them to the much smaller, more modern Company colours I used to carry as a Colour Sergeant in the Boys Brigade (quite a fight, by the way, holding these unfurled in a stiff breeze which makes me think overly large flags would be most impractical). Perhaps recent visitors can comment.

Until someone comes up with a definitive answer, d_guy, I would therefore stick with the ECW dimensions.

p.s. I've also read somewhere(?) that surviving Williamite standards are rare and that many of these are captured ones. Perhaps our French friends are able to comment further?

[d_Guy]

Westie, thanks for the thoughtful reply!

I make my own paper (stiffened with white glue) flags (many removable) and the 6' scaled staff on most Pendraken figures accommodates them very well. As I complete the figures for wargaming 1638 - 1660, my next step will be starting on 1660 - 1690. While I like the look of them being slightly larger, I believe I will follow your suggestion.

[Leon]

We generally scale all of ours to around 12mm square, so 6ft in real life terms.  It might be a bit bigger than some flags in certain periods, but I think it's nicer to have bright, colourful standards in your units.

[fsn]

I'll pass that thought to ISIS.

[Hwiccee]

Sorry missed this when it was posted. There was seemingly little standardisation of size but about 2 meters or 6 to 7 feet square is typical for all the armies of the time.

[d_Guy]

Thanks also Hwiccee.
I scaled my original flag blanks (and have maintained that scale) to the base to crown height of Pendraken EC1 pikeman which works out to about the dimensions you mention. I do make them square because they just look better. Incidently the horse cornets are made to 1/3 of the foot ensign with a slight scallop on the fly edge. Will carry this forward in to LoA (Williamite Wars).

[Subedai]

This may sound weird and unhistorical but I size my flags to fit the standard pole...otherwise they look silly. And no, before anyone says anything I'm not going to faff around converting standard bearers so that they flourish the flag with one hand like they did in the ECW.

Mini rant over.

According to Young, Edgehill and Reid Flags of the English Civil War Part Two The Scottish Colours of Foot... infantry flags of the ECW were six and a half feet square.

Does that help?

MickS