Ram tank - new addition to Pendraken

[Sunray]

If you look at new releases you will see a Ram tank in the pipeline.  Never saw action, so not on the rules list, but has potential for postwar counterfactual  scenarios .  The Dutch got most of British supply.  Did they use them in Indonesia ?

In terms of BKC for a 6pdr armament I constructed  the following :-
                         Arm      Move     AT   AP     CA     Hits    Save
Tank unit Ram                   20      3/60  1/40   4       6        4

This is prompted by the Wargaming.net which claims that the better armour of the Ram (compared to M4) would put it on a par with a "Churchill III" ?  If so it is a useful piece of kit for its tier.

Comments ?

[petercooman]

Just a a hint, but there is a vehicle in the BKC book that uses the RAM chassis:

                                                     move   AT  AP      CA  hits  save
Transport Unit (Ram Kangaroo)    TRN      20      -    1/40    3    4     5       50 [50]      #2 O

Your stats are not too far off, but i would go with 5 hits maximum i think, since a sherman has 4 hits, and the RAM is basically an updated sherman.


Fun fact, In the early 50ies, the Dutch transformed some of their RAM's and shermans into bunkers by removing the engine and fixing them in concrete in the 'ijssellinie' , a defence line  that could be flooded in case of a russian attack.






So you can make turret defences out of your Ram's if you want  

[Wulf]

Even for a Ram, that's a very, very small gun...

(the real one was probably removed many years ago)

[petercooman]

Well in case of flooding, the crew would stay inside the 'bunker' for an unknown time, so maybe they downgraded the gun to be able to stock something else in there besides ammo 

[Wulf]

This is prompted by the Wargaming.net which claims that the better armour of the Ram (compared to M4) would put it on a par with a "Churchill III" ?  If so it is a useful piece of kit for its tier.

This comment has to be read bearing in mind that, in World of Tanks, Churchill armour is utter garbage. The official armour value on any face appears only in small panels, with the rest of the armour being far weaker. Churchills are, generally, one great big rolling weak spot...

Hull & turret of the Ram II are comparable to the turret on a M4A2/Sherman III (which is a lot better than the hull on a Sherman III!), but the Ram sides are even tougher.

Ram Hull 76/63/38 mm f/s/r
Sherman Hull 50/38/38
Ram Turret 76/76/51
Sherman Turret 76/50/50

(the Churchill III has hull frontal armour rated at 176mm, which, according to World of Tanks, was only the panel around the MG port...)

If we were talking Chain of Command, I'd call it Armour 7 (Churchills get 8, 7 puts it equal to a late mark Cromwell or an M4A3E8, which is a good fit from World of Tanks stats), AP 5, HE 3 (no HE rounds for the 6 pounder!), but Heavy Armour (so sides are as good as the front)

[Sunray]

Just a a hint, but there is a vehicle in the BKC book that uses the RAM chassis:

                                                     move   AT  AP      CA  hits  save
Transport Unit (Ram Kangaroo)    TRN      20      -    1/40    3    4     5       50 [50]      #2 O

Your stats are not too far off, but i would go with 5 hits maximum i think, since a sherman has 4 hits, and the RAM is basically an updated sherman.


Fun fact, In the early 50ies, the Dutch transformed some of their RAM's and shermans into bunkers by removing the engine and fixing them in concrete in the 'ijssellinie' , a defence line  that could be flooded in case of a russian attack.






So you can make turret defences out of your Ram's if you want  

Thanks for this, and the flood defence images !

Yes, I game Kangaroo APC's at the lower BKC ratings  3/4/5, but was open to discussing  a higher level for the RAM on the basis that it was not an  open topped  APC.  I was not aware of the heavier armour until I checked World of Tanks site.  

As you say' The "World of Tanks"  quotes the Hull Armour of the Ram as 76.2mm versus 50.8m on the M4 and the Ram's side armour as 63 mm against 38.1mm  and as a corollary of the better armour give 610 Hit Points against 400 HP on the M4.
So what are we saying  for BKC ?- Even a 5 'hits' score makes the Ram a useful piece of post war kit. 

[petercooman]

If you think that 5 is too low, you can always give it "though" to complement that. Means it's side armour is taken into consideration.

[OldenBUA]

There were various vehicles used in Indonesia by the Dutch, but I think the RAM wasn't one of them.

If you Google 'politionele acties' images, you will get an idea.

[Sunray]

If you think that 5 is too low, you can always give it "though" to complement that. Means it's side armour is taken into consideration.

No Peter, your points are well made. 5 seems fair.  The Ram is not a Churchill.

When we enter post war - with that eclectic mix of old and new vehicles - I find the CWC rules often lumps vehicles into the same tier.  BKC has more variation.

  For example where would you put the M41 Walker Bulldog in the BKC scale ?  The armour is not much better than the Chaffee, but the gun is powerful and it is agile.

[petercooman]

The M41 should be faster than the chaffee too, the M41 could do about 45mph and the chaffee 35mph from what i read.

Apart from that i would go the T34-T34/85 route, just up the attack stats

[Sunray]

Sounds about right.  The M41 was designed with the T34/85 in mind.  Then the T54s  flooded the - I was going to say market- but its a case of supply to client groups in Soviet areas of influence

I got a ride in the Danish M41 some 25 years ago.  There was a sports car style lift in acceleration from 0-45 mph. 

[petercooman]

Well it did have a 500 hp engine as a base, and The danish ones were M41 DK-1, wich had an upgraded/updated engine.


They had a nice AA version too, the m42 duster:

[petercooman]

Just find this when looking at the duster, wouldn't want to be at the other end!: