Regiment of Foote 2nd edition

[Leman]

TBH naval wargaming doesn't do it for me and I rather wish this naval stuff was in its own thread. Meanwhile, I am also rather disappointed by the poor production values of ROF2. I haven't yet played it, but I could see a lot of time spent by some gamers faffing around on the campaign chart trying to get more points. The original rules' pre-battle campaign had much more of an ECW feel to it, and I can see myself continuing to play the old rules.

[d_Guy]

Leman,
Since I stated this thread I figured I had the "power" to start another one for Jutland! 

All-
I have only just returned to tabletop wargaming. Played all the way through the 1970's and early 80's but pretty much stuck there.
I wallow in a vast sea of ignorance and basically don't want to annoy people with too many questions or threads. Leman and Zippee have both mentioned production values in RoF2 - the black and white pictures in particular. Martin says that is done for clarity. I think of the hours I poured of "Little Wars", "Charge!", "The War Game", etc - so no real problem. Of course, now having used "Pike and Shotte", Warband", and a dozen others, REALLY appreciate the new world!

I will probably always play from scenarios (self-designed and others) so for me at least most of the pre-game is not neccessary. Martin' s writing style is unique and minimalist and he does seem overly concerned about preventing "cheating" and other bad behavior - his experiences are presumably different than mine. Overall, as I continue to play RoF2, I generally like the experience and its application to my narrow pursuits. I may use it to prototype scenarios for other rules.

With virtually no experience with modern ( current) rules or their evolution I get excited about a new mechanism only to be lectured by a TMP'er that it has been around since the 1990's (yawn!). You lot are much more polite!

So the mechanisms I like in RoF2:
1. Rolling to move out of difficult terrain - thought I would hate it actually love it.
2. Opening cannonade - I fairly realistic way to begin a battle.
3. No diagonal move (old - but believably implemented)
4. Pike effect - arriving at a differential between the number of attacker/defender pikes and then essentially  fighting a pre-battle to see who can reduce the other side - best implementation of "push of pike" I've seen.
5. Except for light and medium guns no constant fiddling with formation and facing.
6. A simple field command ("Generals") implementation that uses three simple gifts that allow re-rolls in certain situations - of course I am paralyzed by the decision to re-roll 
7 The avoidance of combat is a simple and straight forward.
8. IGOUGO - right to left - as old as Senet but great for solo play

Not so much:
1. Everything to do with musketry
2. Cutesy things like "the preacher" and "the dog"  - love it in fantasy - not so much in historic - although it nows appears to be de rigueur.
Prefer cards for this sort of thing.
3. Did I mention the musketry? 

Zippee, I have looked a bit at the Impetus system and am also waiting for "Baroque" to be released - soon apparently.

[Ithoriel]

I wallow in a vast sea of ignorance and basically don't want to annoy people with too many questions or threads.

I think you underestimate the forum's most vocal members delight in sharing the things they know (or think they do   ).

[Leman]

Hi Guy - a regular opponent and I are play-testing the forthcoming Baroque rules, as he has offered his services to Lorenzo, so I'll let you know how things progress. As regards ROF2, it just strikes me as very odd as a set of rules, having played and enjoyed Square Bashing 2. SB2 doesn't seem to suffer from the sense of  irritability in ROF2, nor does it suffer from the appalling lack of proof reading. I can't think of another set of rules, and I have played many over the last 50 years, where the substance of the rules is filled with so much ranting. It's not the place for it. I'm a bit miffed at paying £17.50 to be lectured at about things with which I mostly agree anyway. My basic rule of thumb is that if someone is a cheat or a rules lawyer then just don't play them. That's all that needs to be said on the subject. There is also a poorly hidden rant at card driven games as well. I have played many card driven games and they are not all the same. Some I don't like, such as Maurice, others are great fun, such as Longstreet and Field of Battle. To lump them all together as bad games does seem a little excessive, especially as some of my opponents think Maurice is a really good game. For me the most disappointing aspect of the rules is the pre-battle campaign. In the original ROF this was terrific fun, but in ROF2 it seems very similar to the campaign in Blucher, which I think is pants. To sum up, I think the Peter Pig range of figures is really good, especially with the option of switching heads around to provide lots of variety. It's just a pity that the game presented to go with those figures is such a disappointment.

[Zippee]

Not a lot to disagree with in Leman's analysis 

I got very irked at the ranting against bad players - it's hard to feel it's not aimed at the reader which is rather silly, basically you're 'aving a go at your customers - probably wrongly, leaves a sour taste

I also heartily disliked the snide remarks about card based games, I like Maurice but appreciate it's only in part a miniatures game, but I'm a great fan of TooFatLardies stuff and it felt that was where the finger was pointing as the criticism was randomness equalling lack of plan. All that demonstrated to me was a very blinkered and uninformed opinion of such rules.

The production values just don't stand up in this day and age - again contrast with the production values of TFL, not a large publisher by any measure but vastly superior values.

I feel the pain of £17.50 - imagine mine I bought a PDF copy as well and had to stump up a whole nother £17.50, no discount bundle, just another mini-rant about suspicions of piracy of those who want the digital copy. Still that was my choice but I bitterly regret not waiting to see the PDF before ordering the hardcopy - wouldn't have happened without the whole personalisation delay.

I love PBI, I love PITS but ROF2 has failed to inspire - its close but just not what I thought it would be.

Roll on the full Baroque - it's been "soon" for far too long, we should have had it last Salute, it's looking doubtful for this one! Then there'll be the longer wait for Impetus 2, I'm not getting any younger folks! 

[Leman]

I feel your pain Zippee. Looks like I'll be playing a lot more Honours of War and card based FOB2.

[d_Guy]

I got the PDF of RoF2 because I'm over here AND like instant gratification. I was under the impression that the printed copy was in color - fully understand the complaints now. Incidentally it would have been better to watermark the page ("do not copy" or some such). If I where unscrupulous I could just simply ...we'll never mind - and Bob's your uncle! (As you guys used to say)

Oh well - back to my little world.