Are the fantasists taking over?

[Orcs]

There's fantasy and there's fantasy.

Goblins and hobbits and trolls (oh boy!) I left behind in about 1982

I don't think you did - You reguarly address me on this forum 

[Ithoriel]

Providing your fairies have accurately pointed up their transformation and damage immunity abilities I don't have a problem with that, though I may rue my decision to arm my orange-and-blue anthropomorphised orcas with photon blasters rather than pulse disrupters

I've come across plenty of fantasy panzergrenadiers in my half a century of gaming but, so far, no zombie ones .... time yet though!

For me Fantasy and Sci-Fi are just other periods alongside Ancients, WW2 or Napoleonics.

[fsn]

I imagine my fairies are immune to photon blasts because photon blasts temporarily turn them into giant photon blaster devouring werewolves who cause the photon blaster operatives to hallucinate, see pink reptillian flying elephantine mammoths and flee. Imagine the surprise of my opponent.

Would you like one of my pills?

[petercooman]

Same here, i have scifi, fantasy and historical, and they are all fun! I had the most fun in my young years pitching napoleons troops against dinosaurs and vietnam era soldiers versus king kong!

And think of how many historical variants have come out of a fantasy game like warmaster  

The only thing to consider is your own interests, you buy and play what you like!

Would you like one of my pills?

I'll have a green one please dear lad!

[KTravlos]

Is it fantasists or is it skirmish gaming that is getting popular?

Most glossy skirmish games are fantasy/sci fi ones, so you might be seeing this more than anything.

Anyway those fantasy players may be future historical wargamers. I would not worry.

[Luddite]

A historical wargame scenario may be imperfect history, but that does not make it fantasy.

Opinions differ.  

And that's fine.  

The only problem i ever have with this old and probably endless debate is the idea (either implicit or explicit) that historical gaming is worthy whereas fantasy and sci fi gaming isn't.  I just don't see that as valid.  It still rears its head at the table with snide comments when fantasy or sci fi is on show. 

Its all playing (fantasy gaming) with toy solders whether your toys are Voltiguers or orcs.

As long as its fun, who cares?

[petercooman]

As long as its fun, who cares?

That's the spirit!

[fsn]

How does fantasy compare with, say AVBCW? Or indeed my current project "somewhere in the Middle East, 1960"? Certainly, I hope my Ontoses Ontosi M48's will behave as well as I can mimic in 10mm, but surely my project is "fantasy"? I've just reread High Crusade and am wondering about a medieval vs alien game.

I'm still not going to but ents, trolls or dwarves. It just doesn't float my boat. Neither does the Indian mutiny nor the LoFA nor Macedonians. 

As long as its fun, who cares?

Wot he said.

[cbr3d.com]

Undoubtedly the release by PD of Warband will create a flow of new non-historic wargamers onto the forum, and let us not make any bones about it the number of gamers who consider themselves 'fantasy' and 'SF' wargamers within the hobby both far exceed the number who consider themselves 'historical' wargamers.  My own interests are mainly 'historical', but I acknowledge that the wargaming market is a plethora of different wargaming genres and PD have to exist in the market place as is.  I am not concerned that we may over the coming months end up with literally hundreds (if not thousands) of new members on the forum who basically are interested in Warband fantasy.  In my view one of the great strengths of the new Warband fantasy rules and this forum is that they both encourage players to create new army lists, many of which will be based using existing PD historic figure ranges.  This will create a win - win situation for both historic and fantasy players as it 'hopefully' will encourage PD to continue expanding the historic figure ranges available knowing that the customer market for such figures has increased by the addition of fantasy buyers for the new figures /ranges.

PD is also re-releasing Future Commander in the BKC range of rules, this will undoubtedly also mean many new figure ranges in the SF genre.  Again though this will have (IMO) more benefits than drawbacks as some of the SF gamers will also be already interested or will become interested in the BKC historic rules, thereby expanding the number base of players for the historic BKC rulesets.  This will hopefully again encourage PD to continue to produce new figures and ranges.

We have to remember that Dave and Leon have to live in the real world and actually not only recoup their investments but also make a profit, but above all also look to take into account growth of the business so that in 1,  2, 5, or even 10 years time we are all still able to come on here and buy our own particular chosen type of wargaming miniatures.

Here endeth the Party Political Broadcast for the PD manufacturers and gamers party!  

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I started in Fantasy, went historical, then back...
Love it all (except 28mm Zombie-Vampire-Cowboys)!

[Glorfindel]

I remember reading a similar discussion way back in 'Battle' magazine
(but with more entrenched opinions and vitriolic letters).   This time, its
much more civilised, and better for it.

I expect most wargamers have some experience of both (with the pervasive
GW influence).   I'm certainly happy to play both and do so regularly
(Warmaster, Epic & Black Powder).

I do, however, agree with Luddite :

>>The only problem i ever have with this old and probably endless debate is
the idea (either implicit or explicit) that historical gaming is worthy whereas
fantasy and sci fi gaming isn't.<<

Even though I love both, there is a certain reluctance to 'own up' to Fantasy or
Sci-Fi gaming.   Strange.   Anyway, as I'm now approaching 50, I've decided that
I really don't give a stuff about the nay-sayers - its all good (historical, sci-fi or
fantasy).   Just don't get me started on people who play those silly skirmish
games...   


Phil

[Ithoriel]

Friend turned up unexpectedly this evening so I fed him coffee and biscuits and inveigled him into a game of FRAG Deadlands - Zombie-Vampire-Cowboys AND a skirmish (if a single figure counts as skirmish?) game!

My Harrowed Gunslinger narrowly beat The Man In The Black Duster.

If you have a problem with that I'll see you come noon .... in the bar .... might even buy ya a sasparilla!

[FierceKitty]

When I started this thread I wondered how long it would be before the old chestnut of "all wargaming is fantasy" would crop up. I beg to differ. Panzergrenadiers are not fantasy; zombie panzergrenadiers definitely are. There is also the point that if fantasy 'unleashes the imagination' then if you're going to photon blast my fairies, then I imagine my fairies are immune to photon blasts because photon blasts temporarily turn them into giant photon blaster devouring werewolves who cause the photon blaster operatives to hallucinate, see pink reptillian flying elephantine mammoths and flee. Imagine the surprise of my opponent.

Well said, on several points.

[Steve J]

I play mainly historical games, but also some near future/sci-fi. I enjoy both and wouldn't want to change. I might move back into 'classic' fantasy games of Dwarves vs Goblins at some point, just as a trip down memory lane to my formative gaming years. Sadly I have plenty of stuff in the queue to stop me indulgin, but the release of 'Dragon Rampant' may change this .

[fsn]

Back to the original question. Are the fantasists taking over? Not really.

Remember last year when it was "Mongol this" and "Jingis that"?

These things will pass. The Dark Lord is wise and we should trust in him. 

[Luddite]

Are the fantasists taking over?   No. 

Was a time you couldn't move on the forum for Centurion tanks.

Aye.  Boring wasn't it?  Nothing but tanks and Aztecs to talk about...

Now it's goblins, dwarves and fairies.

Is it?  And thats a bad thing?

Whatever happened to history?

Nothing, its still going strong.
[/quote]

[fsn]

 "Enough historical out there, we need fantasy! A fantasy range of buildings please, unit cards, unofficial game of thrones lists please."
- Warband Facebook Page

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

*Falsetto*
Is this the real life...
Is it just fantasy?

[Techno]

No escape from reality ? 
Cheers - Phil

[Steeleye]

Some of my fondest wargame memories are of my English Civil War army fighting a friend's Orcs, or, when my Medieval longbowmen arrow stormed a unit of Goblin wolf riders, or my Men-at-arms fighting to the last man (and woman) against the Evil Skeleton hordes.

I like historical armies but have no problem setting them against 'fantasy' armies, in fact I'm sort of setting up a 'fantasy world' with various pike and shot' armies against more primitive human and fantasy foes.

As long as all things are equal...things like the effects of magic are hammered out before the game starts, I really have no problem with 'fantasy', or sci-fi; my Vietnam war Americans spend most of their time fighting 'Bugs' or giant robots!

As someone has already said, as long as you enjoy yourself who cares?

Also hasn't there been some discussion about 'Warband Historical'? Perhaps we're taking about the wrong thing here, perhaps the reason Fantasy appears to be taking over/more popular is because the rules are more 'fun'/easier to get a grip on.

Coming from a generation of gamers who had to write their own rules I have to say I'm not impressed with most commercial rules, it often seems to me that you're fighting the rules not your opponent.