polemos ACW

[Fenton]

I dont think you could go wrong with either version of Fire and Fury

[Fenton]

Or if you want to do huge battles then BBB by Chris Pringle might fit the bill

[getagrip]

Or if you want to do huge battles then BBB by Chris Pringle might fit the bill

Big is good; I always end up going mad on the purchase front 

[Hertsblue]

Played our first game of BBB yesterday. I'd certainly recommend them for very big games.

[getagrip]

Played our first game of BBB yesterday. I'd certainly recommend them for very big games.

I think I'm looking for the impossible ; rules which can handle small to large battles. 

[Chris Pringle]

Although BBB is designed for fighting the biggest C19 battles in about 3 hours, by popular demand there are now numerous scenarios for smaller games (division-sized actions or thereabouts) which can be played by two players, on 4'x4', in 90 minutes or so. The game is scaleable.

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info

[getagrip]

Thanks Chris, I'm looking for a simple, fast rule set to represent generis ACW battles (I'm not into hours of historical research).

[toxicpixie]

I like that you can call a division a side "small"

Polemos - we tried the Sun King era version, and the mechanisms were interesting and took some time to get used to (like Ithorial says, you have to work out what your doing before you get stuck in, as otherwise it's like others have said - both sides just end up flailing around spasmodically because neither has the pips to do something when they can, or can't act when they do ), but it was just too finicky for playing long term.

We still use F&F for ACW, but are playing some "Mit Blud und Eisen"/FFF for Europe/Crimea and it's good fun for big games. Think it's pitched similar level to BBB - manoeuvre units are Brigades, formations are Divisions and a player might easily push a Corps around in a short-ish evening.

[Leman]

Like that a lot.

Thanks Gordon

Curious about the zero degrees though; doesn't that throw up some weird "you can't shoot but in reality you would" situations?

The units in Civil War battles are brigades, not regiments. Yes, some of the troops in a brigade would fire off at an angle, but not enough to make any difference in the scale of the game. Your brigade is going for the enemy brigade to your front. If there's no one to your direct front, but enemy offset to your front the rules force you to behave like a Civil War brigadier and manoeuvre your brigade to face the enemy to deliver maximum firepower and hopefully a charge. Good rules, and would recommend stick with the base sizes given for 15mm but stuff 'em with 10mm figures. These are brigades after all.

[getagrip]

The units in Civil War battles are brigades, not regiments. Yes, some of the troops in a brigade would fire off at an angle, but not enough to make any difference in the scale of the game. Your brigade is going for the enemy brigade to your front. If there's no one to your direct front, but enemy offset to your front the rules force you to behave like a Civil War brigadier and manoeuvre your brigade to face the enemy to deliver maximum firepower and hopefully a charge. Good rules, and would recommend stick with the base sizes given for 15mm but stuff 'em with 10mm figures. These are brigades after all.

Nicely explained Leman; thanks

[Chris Pringle]

Toxicpixie - I did say "smaller", not "small" - important difference!

Getagrip: understood. I consider BBB to be simple and fast, but there are undoubtedly simpler and faster games available that may suit you better. But there are BBB players who have created points systems to use BBB for generic games as well - no historical research required. For instance, see here:
http://www.greathallgamers.org/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2052&posts=1#M14097

Anyway, whatever you decide to do with your ACW boys, good luck and happy gaming.

Chris

PS - gotta have zouaves - they look cool!

[getagrip]

Thanks Chris, that's a big help.

Zouaves do look cool but I also want to get an army on the table reasonably quickly too.

[Leman]

Bear in mind that some zouave units wore all dark blue (eg 9th NY) or all light blue (eg 146th NY) uniforms.

[getagrip]

Bear in mind that some zouave units wore all dark blue (eg 9th NY) or all light blue (eg 146th NY) uniforms.

Yeah but I think if you're doing that you might as well use standard foot.

Want to use them as a splash of colour.

[toxicpixie]

Heh, that's an important caveat, Chris

Although tbh that whole "Americas thing" was pretty Mickey Mouse, I can't see it catching on.

[paulr]

Yeah but I think if you're doing that you might as well use standard foot.

Want to use them as a splash of colour.

A damn fine approach 

[paulr]

I think I'm looking for the impossible ; rules which can handle small to large battles. 

My suggestion would be Volley & Bayonet 

An older set of rules while not specifically for ACW it does have good mods that cover the period. There are of lots of ACW V&B players with plenty of support on the Yahoo group and Keith McNelly's V&B pages.

You can use the various scales to play games with a few battalions a side up to Gettysburg 

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

There are also various campaign books if you can find them. Rate as rocking horse pooh...

[KTravlos]

Beyond another endorsement for Big Bloody Battles, an other option I find attractive though had not the chance to play yet is Altar of Freedom. Base is a brigade, and commanders play a big  role having characteristics that impact the battle. They have done a very good job with providing a massive amount of scenarios, and an attractive package. I have not had the chance to play them yet (working on finishing painting two small forces), but they sure read and look nice.

[Westmarcher]

As Polemos ACW appears to be getting the elbow and other rules are being recommended, just to mess with your mind further, Grip (but not deliberately).

If you find you like gaming the ACW and decide to game other historical periods (e.g., Napoleonic, 18th Century, Crimean War, FPW, etc.), you could do what I did and buy period / conflict specific rules and end up with something like 30 different rule sets   

OR

buy yourself more generic rules (with period / conflict adjustments) like Black Powder or Field of Battle. These cover a period of roughly 200 years up to the end of the 19th century, it will be cheaper in the long run and you only have to worry about the nuances of one or two rule sets and not a couple of dozen (most of which you'll probably never play anyway).

Makes for an easier life. If you really get into a period, that may then be the time to start to buy period specific rules(?).