Pendraken Feedback

[Sandinista]

Times like this we need a "like" button as I echo all that Subedai says it that last post 

[Chad]

Subodai

You are very fortunate to have the option of filling in from other ranges and having a compatible other manufacturer available. This is not a position that all of us can enjoy. Do all members who purchased the Mongol range know of the fill-in figures and the compatible manufacturer?

Taking Lemmey's point about 1806 Prussians. You would then need Saxons (unless you ignore Jena) and early Russians (unless you ignore Eylau). Then you would have to determine how many of the Revolutionary era French would be suitable with the possibility that additional figures would be needed. Austerlitz would present a similar problem, requiring early Russians. It does not make perfect economic sense in such situations. There are alternative manufacturers, but some are (a) incomplete ranges and (b) incompatible.

Another example are the Prussians for 1815. The line would be fine for 1813, but are the Reserve regiments going to be produced for that campaign?

Chad

[Subedai]

Subodai

You are very fortunate to have the option of filling in from other ranges and having a compatible other manufacturer available. This is not a position that all of us can enjoy. Do all members who purchased the Mongol range know of the fill-in figures and the compatible manufacturer?

I agree I am fortunate, but this is not the first time that I have posted this information. When the Mongols first came out I mentioned that other ranges were usable for all but Russians. To my mind, research is an integral part of the hobby concerning all aspects of both the historical army and also the availability of figures, if necessary sourcing them from a number of manufacturers as and when required. I would like to think that purchasers of the Mongol range who had already made the commitment to use them as medieval Mongols and not in a fantasy or other period would have had one eye on enemies. The information is out there, research will find it, or, with the number of forums on wargaming, someone will have the information they are willing to share...and I include myself in that category.   

Taking Lemmey's point about 1806 Prussians. You would then need Saxons (unless you ignore Jena) and early Russians (unless you ignore Eylau). Then you would have to determine how many of the Revolutionary era French would be suitable with the possibility that additional figures would be needed. Austerlitz would present a similar problem, requiring early Russians. It does not make perfect economic sense in such situations. There are alternative manufacturers, but some are (a) incomplete ranges and (b) incompatible.

Another example are the Prussians for 1815. The line would be fine for 1813, but are the Reserve regiments going to be produced for that campaign?

Chad

Going back to my point above, all of your comments are something that the individual should take into account when they embark on a new period. I just briefly looked at my copy of Jena - Auerstadt, The Triumph of the Eagle and immediately concluded that in 10mm, SYW Prussian infantry would work for Saxons and any generic hussar in a mirliton would be okay for Saxon hussars. (Or you could check out the Eureka site they do all the AB figures). If nobody makes a particular range then there is probably a good economical reason why not, after all, no manufacturer whose livelihood is based on sales is going to commission a range that will -to all intents and purposes- not be a 'seller', unless of course they are a Lottery winner who does it for fun. (I can dream can't I?)

This point is also relevant for Prussians. The Reserve regiments wore such diverse uniforms to start with and after a few months in the field they would be wearing anything they could get their hands on so you could probably use a shirtless civilian figure from a medieval range and he would not look too much out of place. More seriously, the British supplied a lot of uniforms to the Prussians so Peninsular stovepipe shako wearers are useful, French tunics and shako's were also worn so it could be that only a different paint job is required.

I think, and I make this as a generalisation rather than aimed at any individual, that wargamers today are so spoilt for choice that sometimes they either can't be ar*ed or think that their time is too important to waste it on research for anything. It's getting like a fast food takeaway, they want it immediately so it goes from the packet to the table with none of the boring intermediate stages like painting. To me, that is a massive loss because all aspects of the hobby are an important means to an end.

[Ithoriel]

As primarily a wargamer who sees figures, first and foremost, as gaming pieces I am amazed and amused by the angst expended on the accuracy of figures.

Having been brought up on,"Black hat, red jacket, white trousers - British. Black hat, blue jacket, white trousers - French" because there were so few sources of figures I'd have said,"Type of shako? Position of cartridge box? Sword or bayonet? Who cares!" but it turns out that the answer to that question is,"Far more people than I'd realised!!"

Here's hoping 2015 brings at least some of you at least some of the figures you are looking for.

I'm off to turn some 6mm New Kingdom Egyptian swordsmen into Sumerian Guardsmen, I'll (eventually) post pics if that works. Though at the rate I'm painting these days it may depend on my living long enough to finish them

[Subedai]

As primarily a wargamer who sees figures, first and foremost, as gaming pieces I am amazed and amused by the angst expended on the accuracy of figures.

Having been brought up on,"Black hat, red jacket, white trousers - British. Black hat, blue jacket, white trousers - French" because there were so few sources of figures I'd have said,"Type of shako? Position of cartridge box? Sword or bayonet? Who cares!" but it turns out that the answer to that question is,"Far more people than I'd realised!!"

Here's hoping 2015 brings at least some of you at least some of the figures you are looking for.

I'm off to turn some 6mm New Kingdom Egyptian swordsmen into Sumerian Guardsmen, I'll (eventually) post pics if that works. Though at the rate I'm painting these days it may depend on my living long enough to finish them

Keep plugging away, they should be fun to see.

I am assuming that like me you hail from an earlier age of wargaming where if you wanted anything in lead apart from British or French Napoleonics, the odd ancient Roman or Greek etc, you either tried converting or looked at Airfix for inspiration. To me, even now if it looks close enough then that's exactly what it is...close enough and I'm not going to quibble -especially in 10mm, I'll leave that to the annoying sh*ts of the rivet counting persuasion.

[Leman]

I also agree, having happily wargamed in the 60s with Airfix WWI French masquerading as ACW zouaves - banana oil et al.

[Orcs]

As primarily a wargamer who sees figures, first and foremost, as gaming pieces I am amazed and amused by the angst expended on the accuracy of figures.

Having been brought up on,"Black hat, red jacket, white trousers - British. Black hat, blue jacket, white trousers - French" because there were so few sources of figures I'd have said,"Type of shako? Position of cartridge box? Sword or bayonet? Who cares!" but it turns out that the answer to that question is,"Far more people than I'd realised!!"

I totally agree.  I have a large  10mm Dacian army - basically a warband army so by adding and removing a few units I can morph it into , Gallic, Ancient British ,Germanic.  Yes sometimes the shield may be incorrect and the archers may need to count as warband , but none of my opponents has worried about that.

[Orcs]

Pendraken need to produce what is comercially viable.

It may well be better to produce a complete new range than add specialised figures into ranges., that will only sell limited quantities.

[toxicpixie]

"Range X simply isn't complete without figure Y" where Y will sell precisely one figure per set of people playing... Must strike fear into the hearts of figure makers everywhere...

[Sandinista]

I am assuming that like me you hail from an earlier age of wargaming where if you wanted anything in lead apart from British or French Napoleonics, the odd ancient Roman or Greek etc, you either tried converting or looked at Airfix for inspiration. To me, even now if it looks close enough then that's exactly what it is...close enough and I'm not going to quibble -especially in 10mm, I'll leave that to the annoying sh*ts of the rivet counting persuasion.

I totally agree 

Cheers
Ian

[Subedai]

I also agree, having happily wargamed in the 60s with Airfix WWI French masquerading as ACW zouaves - banana oil et al.

Ahh, the joys of banana oil, not only did it have a myriad uses for wargamers it also smelled.....haruummpphh, enough of that. My first plastic Napoleonic Prussians were made WW I French with small pieces of paper straw filled with plasticene hardened with banana oil for shakos. I hunted for ages to find the right sized straws that sat exactly on the rim of the Adrian helmet.

[Leman]

Fantastic. Ah, the days of wargame pioneering.

[Hertsblue]

Beeswax was our material of choice for modifying Airfix figures. Then given a couple of coats of polyurethane varnish.

[Sunray]

What a lucid informed discussion we have on these pages.  If I can sum up:

1. There is a realisation that Pendraken is a small business. They can't pander to every whim and desire. 

2.  10mm is a small market.   About one punter for every ten gaming in 15mm.   

3.  Its the  good service and personal touch that maintains customer loyalty to the Pendraken Brand.   

4. The Forum is obviously a central dynamic to the business.  It provides a connection to the customer base.   Emerging trends in the market can be discussed and
    debated.  On another forum we have been discussing the 1945 invasion of German from the west.   The fanatical German defence of the Fatherland i and the new kit/better logistics  available to the Allies makes a good contest .   Speaking of new kit, the Comet is shortly to appear on Pendraken lists- is there for example  scope for a supplementary" late war range" of figures and weapons that takes us up to VE Day ? 

[fsn]

2.  10mm is a small market.   About one punter for every ten gaming in 15mm.   

Not extracting the Michael, but is that 1 in 10 gaming in 10mm?

Late war would be of some interest, though to be honest my interest really stops at the Westwall. However, I do remember a hint from Dave about his being interested in 1946, so that would sort of link ...

In general I have to agree with your summary. We love Pendraken because of what it is and what it does, and I don't think by and large we have many (serious) complaints. For every person disappointed that the Nap Brits haven't appeared yet, there's another whose made up with the LoA quill maker. I have written before that I would like to see on this forum or on the web site a sort of "forthcoming attractions" page. List in vague terms the upcoming releases and what stage they're at.

I realise this would be double edged - I'd all be getting excited about the release of the Centurion ARK, but Fenton would be bemoaning the delay to the 2nd Bttn Worcester Sauciers, 1882 which he needed for his "Up the Arsenal (British South-West-East Africa, 1881-1883)" campaign, but at least we could all see what was going on.       

[Sunray]

2.  10mm is a small market.   About one punter for every ten gaming in 15mm.  

The trade estimate based on sales is that for every one 10 mm gamer, there are approximately  ten gamers in 15mm.  I confess I have no trade sales figures or stats, but base it on anecdotal evidence from traders and the historic attachment to both 6mm and 15mm which stems from the days when they were used for AVF recognition.
The first time I ever saw a 6mm T55 tank was in the optics of a Milan.  

[Subedai]

Sunray
The first time I ever saw a 6mm T55 tank was in the optics of a Milan.  

Now that is real 6mm wargaming on a grand scale!

[John Cook]

I would love 1806 Prussains!

Yes indeed ML, but we'd also need 1806 French.  One of the principal problems I have is ranges that are unfinished such that I just don't start anything new these days until the entire range is complete.

[Sunray]

Yes indeed ML, but we'd also need 1806 French.  One of the principal problems I have is ranges that are unfinished such that I just don't start anything new these days until the entire range is complete.

Interesting and valid comment John.   Would it be a prudent measure to suggest that Pendraken fill in the gaps in present ranges before any new ventures ? 

I have to confess that I dabble in figures - get them penny packet, paint them and play them.  The more unpainted metal arrives, the more sits unpainted.

[John Cook]

Interesting and valid comment John.   Would it be a prudent measure to suggest that Pendraken fill in the gaps in present ranges before any new ventures ? 

I have to confess that I dabble in figures - get them penny packet, paint them and play them.  The more unpainted metal arrives, the more sits unpainted.

I think so.  I'd rather see one new venture completed, and released in one go, than half a dozen incomplete with the gaps filled over a period.  Perhaps that's just me as it is how I approach my wargaming projects - I'll stick to one until completed to the point where I have two representative and viable 'armies'.  I do have the advantage of being retired so distractions, like having to work for a living, are fewer.