Painting Comp Feedback

[Techno]

Personally.... And I'm not speaking for anyone else here.

Have to admit, that's not something that I'd even imagine would ever happen.
My guess is that it would produce 'howls of protest' from the forum.....and we'd have to discuss it (in one of the secret rooms.  )
Again, personally....I don't really think anyone would take hours and hours of time to produce something wonderfully painted... that they'd be worried about putting on the gaming table.....Unless it went in the Fantasy and Sci-Fi section, where as, as far as I'm concerned, that would be absolutely fine.
There, you have basically free rein.

I'm pretty sure I'd want to see something that's basically 'historically accurate' rather than 'pretty and outrageous'.....But that's just me......And when I say historically accurate....The folk that are painting these figures know thousands of times more than I do.....So I trust their accuracy.
Most put so much research into getting it right.

If something was painted just the wrong shade of heliotrope or taupe on a model......I'm sure I wouldn't be able to tell.

If we took it to the nth level.......We'd never finish the judging.

Cheers - Phil.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Based upon the Berlin Brigade methinks . Scroll down to page two on the following pdf:

http://www.armouredacorn.com/Refs-%20Thumbprints%20&%20Images/NCVM%20Index/Britain/MBTs.pdf

Ahhh, thanks sir.
Love the Berlin pattern, wish I had one iota of the skill to try it!
When I get back onto a main computer that pdf is getting saved!

[clibinarium]

I can't see it as being of much relevance; its the execution of the paint job that's being judged, not the accuracy of the uniform. Perhaps it might be relevant if two entries were equally good with nothing else to choose between them, but I can't see that ever being the case as there'll always be something in the painting that can separate two entries. Plus as has been pointed out no judge will know everything about every period.
Having judged a couple of these now I don't recall accuracy being  important to the decision making.

Good photography far is more relevant to an painter's chances of success; its harder to award points to something that looks like it might be well painted but is out of focus than it is to a unit with the wrong colour of plumes.

[fsn]

Thank you Clib for answering that one.

[Matt J]

Based upon the Berlin Brigade methinks Undecided Wink

Yep, Steve is right it is based on the Berlin brigade camo, love it. I did a bit of research (though moderns isn't my sphere of interest - at the mo) and I know Centurions were part of the Berlin Brigade but probably not at the point the Berlin camo was introduced so without a chieftain available I've used a bit of artistic license. Its for my zombie wars stuff so the pedant in me was subdued somewhat.

Love the Berlin pattern, wish I had one iota of the skill to try it!

Glad you like it Will, it was fun to do, not something i'd try on smaller WW2 tanks.

[nikharwood]

I can't see it as being of much relevance; its the execution of the paint job that's being judged, not the accuracy of the uniform. Perhaps it might be relevant if two entries were equally good with nothing else to choose between them, but I can't see that ever being the case as there'll always be something in the painting that can separate two entries. Plus as has been pointed out no judge will know everything about every period.
Having judged a couple of these now I don't recall accuracy being a important to the decision making.

Good photography far is more relevant to an painter's chances of success; its harder to award points to something that looks like it might be well painted but is out of focus than it is to a unit with the wrong colour of plumes.

Agreed - and, this being 10mm, there are times when the 'impressionistic' style can gain serious points.

Really, it's about skill, style, presentation and the 'wow' factor...

[toxicpixie]

I do like the Berlin Brigade camo, it's cracking - and that Cent is a great example of it. Just one question - is *any* camo any good against the walking dead?!

[Leon]

Thanks for all the feedback, it's always appreciated.  The standard of the entries this year was fantastically high, and thanks to everyone who has entered.

From our end, there are 3 things which drive the Competition:

1. A fun event to encourage everyone to chip away at their lead pile.
2. A great showcase for both Pendraken and 10mm in general, showing people what can be achieved in this scale.
3. A source of inspiration and ideas which we can take away for our own projects.

Over the past 4 competitions, we've seen outstanding pieces of work, many of which we didn't think were even possible!  Every year I get Dave sat down to do his judging, and the phrase 'Wow' becomes quite the norm for an hour or so!  As the competition grows and evolves, it will always attract higher and higher levels of painting, and more people from outside the usual spectrum.  Those factors all contribute to points 2 and 3 above, and are a positive thing.  When that starts to impact on point 1, then we have to look at it and make changes where necessary.

With 1 exception I made a conscious decison not to enter the competition this year. Last year I was struck by the number of existing members entering who have very litle involvement with the forum for the rest of the year, and the number of new forum members who join purely to enter the competition (presumably with a view to winning).I noted the same again this year. For me entering like this is not in the spirit if the forum.

I completely understand the point, and it's something we've discussed briefly behind the scenes.  There's a lot of other factors to consider though, so it's a tricky one to discuss.  The main one being that a lot of the folk who've entered who might be less active on the Forum are still very active customers, many of them on a weekly/monthly basis.  Is the Painting Comp a Forum thing, or a broader Pendraken one?  If we call it a forum event, then the point becomes much more important, however as a wider Pendraken competition, then anyone who has contributed by buying figures is eligible to enter.

Just for interest, of the previous years winners, only 6 out of the 28 winners/runner-up prizes awarded over the 2012/2013 competitions were to folk who we don't hear from much, whether on here or by emails/orders.

There's always the option of adding a 'minimum number of posts' requirement to the rules, much like we did for the 100k post competition?  It would limit the newer members maybe, but on the whole could work?

Last years people's winner has only made 4 posts on the forum and I dont think entered this year

True, but the people voted for that one!

20th C. Foot = WWII
Maybe we should expand the time range... (And thus, my dirty ancients would not have to compete against those brilliant napoleonics!)  

I do agree about the split there, it makes sense with vehicles though.
I think it might be to do with sponsors and Dave's original interests!

The split was suggested after the very first competition, as the WWI/WWII browns and greens were struggling to grab the attention next to all the colours of the earlier periods.  I don't know if it's worth another split though, as the Ancient period can still look very eye-catching, as evidenced by there being a few prize winning Ancient entries in previous years.

My question chaps is about the judging of the competition. Are entries judged only on style and accuracy, or is some element historicity required?

The style and accuracy would take priority, as the other chaps have said.  Personally, I'm not that bothered if the collar matches the cuffs, as long as the whole thing looks good!   




If there's any more feedback, please post it up.  As I mentioned at the start of this rather long post, it's all about making a fun event for everyone, so we want to keep it that way.

[paulr]

Thanks for all the feedback, it's always appreciated.  The standard of the entries this year was fantastically high, and thanks to everyone who has entered.

From our end, there are 3 things which drive the Competition:

1. A fun event to encourage everyone to chip away at their lead pile.
2. A great showcase for both Pendraken and 10mm in general, showing people what can be achieved in this scale.
3. A source of inspiration and ideas which we can take away for our own projects.

<snip for sake of brevity>

If there's any more feedback, please post it up.  As I mentioned at the start of this rather long post, it's all about making a fun event for everyone, so we want to keep it that way.

Very well said that clone

Perhaps, with the dedication of the People's choice award this year, 'Aart Brouwer People's Choice Award', we should consider Forum involvement when casting our votes.  
Those who knew Aart better than I may be able to offer some guidance

On a personal note the competition has achieved all three of the above drivers and most importantly has been fun.  

Many many thanks to Pendraken for organising it, the other sponsors for their generosity, and the esteemed judges for their efforts.

[Sandinista]

If it encourages new people to post good and if at the same time the figures are brilliant then the competition is doing its job in promoting the Pendraken product

[Steve J]

I completely understand the point, and it's something we've discussed briefly behind the scenes.  There's a lot of other factors to consider though, so it's a tricky one to discuss.  The main one being that a lot of the folk who've entered who might be less active on the Forum are still very active customers, many of them on a weekly/monthly basis.  Is the Painting Comp a Forum thing, or a broader Pendraken one?  If we call it a forum event, then the point becomes much more important, however as a wider Pendraken competition, then anyone who has contributed by buying figures is eligible to enter.

A couple of very good points there Leon. For me, I've always thought of it as a 'forum competition', for no other reason than it is open to forum members. I hadn't considered the 'silent members' who are much better customers for Pendraken than my humble self. I don't think there is an easy way to resolve this, but I think it is something that needs looking at if it puts members (such as myself) off from entering.

A few thoughts are:
- Having a pro-painter category (but then what counts as a pro-painter?).
- Having a minimum number of posts per annum (but this could disqualify new members who just happen to have joined at the painting comp time, but intend to be 'active contributors' to the forum).
- Have a diorama category. This could seperate the 'average wargames base' from the stunning one off entries (hopefully!).
- Maybe the Winners of the previous year sit out the current one, but the downside would be we wouldn't see their wonderful work.

As I've already said, I don't see an easy way out for this.

[old hunter]

I'm a fan of war games, but my fun is to paint miniatures. I started painting 10 years and now it's been almost 5 decades. My father painted paintings with all kind of colors, oil, tempera , acrylic, ink, and it was very good . In fact he was able to paint a Picasso, and his copy was identical to, a real camera that passed from  eyes to  hands. All this to tell you something I inherited from my father. Last year I participated in the competition . I have not been rewarded, but that does not matter . With me there was also my brother in law , a famous painter and sculptor of international renown. He saw the pictures of the competition and was astonished when he learned of the winners.
Why do you say this? because I think you're right , but at the same time I also say that Pendraken right. You have to quard with a wider vision , marketing , tells you nothing ? but I think you know very well what I mean.
Well all this for let you know that this year I participated in the competition , I do not care to win, but just let me know , nothing else. Surely there will be people who will appreciate my work , some do not , but nobody will take away the satisfaction of seeing my pictures , good or bad they are, I'm not a photographer , publicate .
However, I understand you and I invite you to participate in the next edition .
I forgot , sorry for my english .
Florindo...

[Nosher]

Have to say that I agree with Tiny on his OP.

I've entered every year but this and didn't dream I had any chance of winning but entered into the spirit with full aplomb and have watched the competition go from strength to strength. The entries year on year get better and better and are a fabulous marketing tool for spreading the gospel about Pendraken. I really like the fact that the prize contributors come from across the wargaming spectrum - neat trick TEAM PD, spread the loving thats what I say!

I didn't enter this year as I haven't painted anything 10mm wise, although I have made the occassional purchase - mainly mini-bits in the last year. Yes I still have a veritable mountain of Pendraken Loveliness but as I have posted elsewhere I'm just not 'feeling the love' for wargaming this year.

The winners each year have been outstanding efforts and I applaud each and every one of them but as Tiny says it would be nice to hear a bit more from them even if its to write an article on their entry - how they got inspiration, what methods they use and better still how they manage to photo their minis so beautifully...

There does seem to be a distinct growth in professional looking entries with superb montages. Personally I'd like to see these montages dropped and each entry only receive one photo and that to be simple - no logos, no montage, no photoshopping etc all of which (like good marketing should) captures the eye/holds the attention/grabs the headlines.

I run a wide range of competitions and awards events and am a fiercely competitive sportsman - after all there aren't any prizes for coming second.... so i know how difficult it is finding balance, even equity. However I trust 100% in the integrity of PD team and the various Judges all of whom know far more about business and painting that I will ever be capable of understanding.

It would be good to see some of the thoughts posted above taken into consideration in the future - which it looks like Leon is already aware of and is thinking about.

[Ithoriel]

It's a painting competition, surely what's important is how good you are at painting.

OK so it's an online painting competition so how good you are at photography also has a bearing.

Do we really want the forum cluttered up with comments, inane or bland, just so some poor sod can rack up his quota of posts? Don't we generate enough rubbish as it is? 

Do we really want to penalise those who are busy, shy or temperamentally taciturn?

From Pendraken's point of view it must be better if, when people search for "Pendraken" online, they find beautifully painted and well shot images and not some slightly out-of-focus wargaming equivalent of a holiday snap. No matter how often the poster comments on the forum or how often they buy "Ooh! Shiny!" from the company.

I'd rather see brilliant pieces entered by professional painters and lose out in the competition than win a prize and lose the inspiration and motivation they provide.

I have a fifty quid compact camera and a graphics package that came free with my previous printer and my painting is workmanlike but not brilliant. I don't expect to win* anything but I certainly haven't let myself down with my entries. To me that's what matters.

Perhaps I'm a relic of a bygone age but for me it really is not the winning but the taking part that matters.

Bring 'em all on and give me something to aspire to!

Mike


*Dear judges please don't take this to mean I don't WANT to win! 

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Hold Hunter has a point.

Also, so does everyone...

My opinion, which will be as wrong as my personal politics and choice of football team, is entirely mine.

Here we go...

I love this forum.
I only enter entries painted in February (apart from army threads) to the competition as I know how good the other entries will be. I hold a vain hope that one day I might place.

To me the purpose of the comp is
a) to show off (I'm narcissistic)
b) so everyone else, no matter howmany posts, can show their talents and what they enjoy, no matter how good they are.
c) to draw out the silent majority who don't regularly post to show what they do. These are the people who enjoy Pendraken products, but don't want to read our pages of banter.
d) Its great publicity for a great company.
e) Shrewsbury Town and somewhere to the left of Trotsky, before you ask!