Q of the Week: The Lord of the Rings films?

[FierceKitty]

Agree about the mouth-watering qualities of Miss Otto, who can act too. But I must say Cate Blanchett was a bit disappointing; I think she's more elfin in most of her other movies.

[Last Hussar]

Well, now we know the sort of people who frequent these boards (I will refer you to the Amy Pond discussion) remember this.

The dresses worn by Eowyn and Arwen were so clingy and sheer that there were concerns about underwear lines.  Which is why the only thing Miranda and Cate wore under them were long socks...

[nikharwood]

Well, now we know the sort of people who frequent these boards (I will refer you to the Amy Pond discussion) remember this.

I'm taking that as a compliment 

The dresses worn by Eowyn and Arwen were so clingy and sheer that there were concerns about underwear lines.  Which is why the only thing Miranda and Cate wore under them were long socks...

You say that almost as if it was a bad thing...

[FierceKitty]

Don't put lewd ideas into my head at this hour of the morning! I've got to face a class in the immediate future.

[FierceKitty]

Ummm....I don't think Cate was playing either of those roles, was she?

[Leon]

The dresses worn by Eowyn and Arwen were so clingy and sheer that there were concerns about underwear lines.  Which is why the only thing Miranda and Cate wore under them were long socks...

Ummm....I don't think Cate was playing either of those roles, was she?

Aha, he's got you there!

[sixsideddice]

Personally, I love the films if I allow myself to suspend disbelief and go with the flow.... and you can blame Tolkien himself for his bad tactical depictions. He`d never have made a military tactician by any stretch of the imagination lol.

I`m actually a member of the Tolkien Society (if you look carefully, you`ll see my name go up on the credits of the last movie - I think I`m on screen about point 3 of a second haha), so I know `the master`s`work intimately; and can see all the gripes, all the annoying bits left out, things included which shouldn`t have been, and the chopping up of vital delivered speeches and lines which verge on the ridiculous at times.

But, plain and simply, I think the complete (extended version only) thing is a work of genius.

Just my opinion, but I`m delighted the movies were made and are top of my all time favourites list.

Oh and Miss Otto WANTS me.... I can tell, she`s mine... mine....  all mine   gollum!

Six  

[Leon]

if you look carefully, you`ll see my name go up on the credits of the last movie - I think I`m on screen about point 3 of a second haha

That's pretty cool, which bit do I need to fast forward to?

[nikharwood]

This bit:

Ain't no hottie like a Nazgul-killa hottie.

Or something. 

Or this - with an Evanescence track:

Dunno re Six's credits though - not sure that's on youtube 

[Luddite]

I`m actually a member of the Tolkien Society

Oooh..ok!

Here's a good one then...brain teaser plot hole for the expert.

From the Council of Elrond, why didn't Gandalf simply have Gwahir fly Frodo to Mount Doom to drop the ring into the fire?

[count_zero99uk]

Because at that point sauron would have seen it.  the reason they managed to sneak in was because they were so small and unasuming, and as they got close aragorn had announced himself so sauron was more concerend in making sure this new king of the west didnt get anywhere.

I think thats it

[Luddite]

Because at that point sauron would have seen it.  the reason they managed to sneak in was because they were so small and unasuming, and as they got close aragorn had announced himself so sauron was more concerend in making sure this new king of the west didnt get anywhere.

I think thats it

Really?

How would Sauron identify the threat?

One possibility is that he would see the eagles approaching by means of the Palantir.  However, I think it can be strongly argued that the Palantir would not show the eagles unless Sauron directed the Palantir to focus on the particular area where they are flying; the Palantir is not an alarm bell.

Further, we know that the flight path from Rivendell is not where his attention was mainly directed: "...His eye watches that way [the Black Gate] all the time..."

"No, no indeed," said Gollum. "Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way [Cirith Ungol].  His eye is all around, but it attends more to some places than to others.  He can't see everything at once, not yet. [...] He thinks that no one can come to the Moon-tower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about."

The Ered Lithui are a chain of mountains 300-400 miles long (roughly the distance between London and Glasgow), and it is considered impossible to enter Mordor by climbing over them; even one as sneaky and as skilled at climbing as Gollum knows of no way into Mordor except thru Cirith Gorgor and Cirith Ungol.  For this reason, it is unlikely that Sauron would devote much attention to watching the Ered Lithui or the uninhabited Brown Lands.

There appear to be certain kinds of things which attract Sauron's attention, such as Frodo's gaze when he is seated on Amon Hen and is wearing the Ring. Sauron also is immediately aware when Frodo puts on the Ring in Sammath Naur. As long as Frodo does not put on the Ring during the eagle flight, however, it is not obvious that Sauron's attention would be attracted.

We know that Frodo went on foot all the way thru Mordor from Cirith Ungol to Mt. Doom carrying the Ring without Sauron spotting him; so the mere fact that something is carrying the Ring doesn't mean that Sauron will immediately spot it. The only thing which makes an eagle more visible is the fact that it's flying. However, the eagle has the advantage that there's far less time for Sauron to spot it, while the Ring-carrying Frodo was on foot in Mordor for many days.

It's important to note that once the eagles fly into Mordor, the game is no longer one of stealth but speed. Even if Sauron does immediately notice the eagles, he will not necessarily be able to respond in time. We aren't told exactly how long it took the eagles to fly from the Black Gate to Mt. Doom, but my guess is that it could not have been too long.  Perhaps only hours?

After Frodo and Sam entered Mordor thru Cirith Ungol, Sauron had fully ten days to contemplate the purpose of their mission into Mordor, and did not realize that their plan was to destroy the Ring until the last moment.  Given that the Mouth of Sauron refers to the intruders as "spies", Sauron's most likely thought would be that the eagles are merely flying over his realm for reconnaisance purposes.  Thus, even if Sauron notices the eagles, his response would not necessarily be an appropriate one to prevent the Ring from being destroyed (such as having the Nazgul fly directly to Mt. Doom to intercept the eagles).

So i think its unlikely that 'they would be seen' is the reason Gandalf does not have Gwahir fly Frodo to Mount Doom...

[count_zero99uk]

Ok all good points.

How about this one - the book would have been a lot shorter 

[arundel]

Many good points here. I guess my thoughts are that it could have been a lot worse. Don't get me wrong, I own them and watch them occasionally, but I have to agree with the poster who said Bakshi's 70s version captured "the look" better for me. To Jackson's credit:

1.) The land itself. Middle Earth looks just great with its vast mountain ranges, sweeping plains. With the exceptions of a rather hilly Rohan and a far too creepy Lothlorien, I think the films were spot on.

2.) Gollum was superb!! (Though he is an easy character to depict effectively) I loved the scene where Smeagol and Gollum were debating on what course to take; a feast of schizophrenic problem resolution!

3.) The soundtrack was magnificent.

4.) Though probably significantly larger than Tolkien's vision, the Trolls and Balrog were suitably menacing.

On the negative side:

1.) Most of the actors didn't fit the image at all (for me, obviously- ). I agree with several of you that Boromir was a disaster (and I normally like Sean Bean (anyone seen The Field?); Aragorn was too much of a pretty boy, too self-impressed; Galadriel was dreadful, much too menacing (Bakshi does a great job with her, though she does look pretty 70s these days!); Theoden looked like the town drunk. However Frodo and Sam I thought quite good, and Gandalf was excellent!

2.) The biggest problem of all was the changing of the storyline. It is true that films cannot always work like a book, but I just didn't see the reasoning behind some of the changes. The worst was Arwen saving Frodo at the ford. I'd guess that Jackson was desperately trying to create some female heroines doing "guy stuff", but doing so there really dilutes Frodo's moral/spiritual struggle in that scene: part of the strength of Hobbits in general and Frodo in particular is their ability to hang-on. There are some other dodgy tweeks in the story, and it seemed to me the trajectory increased as the films went along.

While Bakshi's flim has some massive problems (mainly in being incomplete-they ran out of money!), a wonky soundtrack, and some questionable portrayals (Boromir looking like a Viking),  his Gimli, Legolas, Theoden, Galadriel, Orcs, Nazgul are to my taste better than the later films. Gollum and Gandalf are just as good, though Frodo and Sam sometimes feel "off".

Sorry for the long post, but I was inspired by the interesting discussion! I might have to crack out Jackson again; maybe I'm being too harsh, and it has been a couple of years...

All the best,

Daryl

[17-21l]

I loved them- soundtrack too loud and at times you have to turn the sound down as it blares through the house ( at my age??) and then a few mins later you have to turn the telly up as you cant hear the actors!!!? arse really ( oh aye - and in the pictures I needed ear defenders ( no Im not that old, I spent 22 years working on tanks - so it aint me - I think??).

Negatives only 2 - it dont follow the books ( Tom Bombadil, Barrow wraiths etc) and the odd Yankie accent slips in - oooops and it REALLY P**Ses me off (Strider and Sam being the main culprits)

Lots of hot chics - which iff I remember (apart from Galadriel) they just didnt enter the book at all (eye candy for the movie masses - cannat winge)

Liv - Id use het s*** for toothpaste (ok maybe not but you get the meaning)

Oh yea- when are those Napoleonics coming out??

Love you all darlings

God save the Queen