What are the French doing?

Started by Vulpine, 12 January 2013, 06:52:02 PM

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Hertsblue

Quote from: sebigboss79 on 21 January 2013, 08:56:30 AM

Another flaw is that (in Germany) the economy cries for skilled labour BUT is unwilling to either PAY those OR TRAIN them.

Even more so in the UK, SB.  >:(
When you realise we're all mad, life makes a lot more sense.

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Vulpine

Quote from: sebigboss79 on 21 January 2013, 08:56:30 AM
What is an ordinary frenchman's interest in Mali?

I suppose the ansure is, if they have Gas, Oil, Materials interests in Mali. The 'ordinary Frechmans' interests is that his Petrol and his utility's prices don't go up.

However, I believe that if you ever have ownership of a country, for example the British Empire or the French Colonies. Once you leave, even when asked to leave I think you should still have a responsibility to leave it in a better state than you found it. Africa before Europe 'occupied' it, might not have been perfect however it was mainly tribes who occasionally have fights (not wars) over boundrys. Now it is wars over country's armed by the northern hemisphere. What a mess 'we' have made.

BTW, I'm skilled labour, I know what you mean
You're just a pathetic
bunch of tin soldiers,
skulking around the
galaxy in an ancient
spaceship!

Luddite

21 January 2013, 11:33:45 AM #62 Last Edit: 21 January 2013, 11:54:12 AM by Luddite
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 20 January 2013, 03:16:52 PM
What strikes me the most is that we have no money to educate and feed people properly in Europe but can spend millions on sending our troops across the globe to "defend" our economic interests.

I believe further wars concerning resources are immanent whereas we do not tackle the real problems of this planet.

The Marching Song of the Covert Batallions



Here we are, seeking out the Reds
Trying to keep the communists in order
Just remember when you're sleeping in your beds
They're only two days drive from the Texas border

How can a country large as ours be scared of such a threat
Well, if they won't work for us, they're against us you can bet
They may be sovereign countries but you folks at home forget
That they all want what we've got but they don't know it yet

We're making the world safe for capitalism

Here we come with our candy and our guns
And our corporate muscle marches in behind us
For freedom's just another word for nothing left to sell
And if you want narcotics we can get you those as well

We help the multinationals when they cry out, protect us
The locals scream and shout a bit but we don't let that affect us
We're here to lend a helping hand in case they don't elect us
How dare they buy our products, yet still they don't respect us

We're making the world safe for capitalism

If you thought the army was here protecting people like yourself
I've some news for you, we're here to defend wealth
Away with nuns and bishops
The Good Lord will help those that help themselves
I've some news for you, we're here to defend wealth

We're making the world safe for capitalism
We're making the world safe for capitalism
We're making the world safe for capitalism
We're making the world safe for capitalism
We're making the world safe for capitalism

:D ;) ;)


Quote from: VulpineEconomic change,  we are living through the times of one of the greatest recessions of recent history,

I'm not convinced we're living through this at all...YET.

There's certainly a banking crisis and a 'credit crunch', but a global recession?  I would say, its coming but its not here yet.

It certainly doesn't feel as bad as the depression of the 1980's.  And its clearly nothing like the Great Depression following the Wall Street Crash int he 1920's. 

There's also no change.  This system is continuing as before.

The banks were propped up with public money, largely through 'quantative easing' (i.e. PRINTING MORE MONEY), and have pretty much carried on regardless, with the exception that they are no longer performing the primary function of a banking system - lending money to capital enterprises. 

What we have is the classic Capitalist mantra; 'make private the profits, make public the debt'.  How much did the UK govet give to its banks?  £800 billion?  £1 trillion?  Where did that come from and where's it going? 

I think there may have been change if, as should have happened, the banks were allowed to collapse - hopefully taking other institutions like the, frankly evil, World Trade Organisation with it...

We'd then be in a position, perhaps much worse than we are now, but with the chance to rebuild a better economic model. 

Instead we're just prolonguing the collapse that we're told has already come, largely as a cover for the ideologically driven move to privatise as much of the remaining public service organisations as possible (HIGHLY lucrative for a private company, to take assets built with public money and extract private profit from them). 

There IS NO PLAN to sort out the global economic problems.  The old model relied on '3rd World' production in places like China and India, and those nations are moving into '2nd world' status, undermining the whole system.  The remaining potential '3rd world' manufacturing zones are either:

1.  Overrun by Islamic fundamentalism
2.  Dominated by ungoverned space and failed states
3.  Lacking the most basic infrastructure, and therefore requiring too much capital expenditure to establish
4.  All three

So how does a Capitalist model therefore revitalise its failing economic model?
 
The crash will come at some point unfortunately.  Capitalism is inherently tied to a boom and bust cycle.  We've had a boom period and the bank-owned governments are throwing public money into the pit in the hopes of staving off the inevitable bust.
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barbarian

What we are living is not capitalism.

In our system, some corporations are too big and to important for the states that they cannot fail or bankrupt. When they are in difficulties, they ask for public help. When they perform well (and do everything possible to pay less taxes) they threat states of living for another country if social pressure rises.
However, little and middle enterprises can (and will) disappear when failing at making money.

In a real capitalist system, everybody should have the same chances to success or fail.

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Luddite

Hmmm...not really.   :-\

In reality, most Western countries are technically hovering around the 'Capitalist social-market mixed economy' model.

'Capitalism' is a sufficiently lazy shorthand.   ;D
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"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Vulpine

21 January 2013, 06:29:24 PM #65 Last Edit: 21 January 2013, 08:31:16 PM by Vulpine
Lud, I disagree. I personally know there is less disposable income around. I used to work 90% in residential, now it's around 10% there's less cash for the average man, certainly.

Unless you mean, it's about to get worse... I think your being paranoid. I hope so anyway.

Interesting thread this one.. Who started it... That's right! ME baby ME!  :d
You're just a pathetic
bunch of tin soldiers,
skulking around the
galaxy in an ancient
spaceship!

Luddite

Yeah, but 'less disposable income' doesn't in any way equate to a recession or a depression on the scale it's being talked up.

In the 1980's for example there was mass unemployment, severely drepressed living standards, people failing to meet their basic costs, mass house repossessions, civil unrest and street rioting; essentially, near economic collapse for large parts of the economy outside of the banking sector.

We're definitely in a downturn at the moment, but that's really more about the 'credit crunch' and the failure of banking to perform its basic functions, as well as fundamentally wrong government policy stifling the recovery.

Look to places like Germany and the US and tere is definately a recovery on the way.

My point about 'it'll get worse has two distinct elements to it:

1.  This government hasn't yet begun its planned cuts to public services.  When (if?) they kick in, we're really going to start hurting, just like Greece, Spain, and Italy.  The US is facing exactly the same problem with the much advertised 'fiscal cliff'...its their true cuts programme...only thing is, unlike us, there's is on a policy auto-trigger.  Our politicians are just borrowing more to delay the cuts they're planning.

2.  The fundamental global financial and banking system that caused this credit crunch has been artificially sustained with MASSIVE public debts.  Despite this, the banking system has withdrawn from its primary fuction - lending Capital to fuel the economy, but is still engaged in high risk/high profit 'casino banking'.  This places tremendous strain on the global public purse, and denies the fiscal liquidity required to underwrite any potential private sector recovery.  This system needs tearing down and rebuilding on a new model that actually works.  The US domestic banking sector would be a good model to start with.

Paranoid?  Indeed i hope i am, but i really don't see this problem as being anything but 'kicked down the road' to use the political parlance.  The system that caused this problem for us al is alive and well.  The key problems haven't been addressed.  Global financial collapse is still a very real possibility, especially if the public sector debtors (Greece et. al.) finally collapse and can no longer underwrite the banks that public money has been given to.

http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

sebigboss79

I beg pardon but I see it is getting worse before it can get better.

In Germany we are too lazy and too busy watching who's got talent to march where our dictator ehem government resides and hang them on the nearest tree. I totally agreed witht he riots across England UNTILL they raided the Sony distribution centre to get huge TVs.

Like in the old Rome: Bread and Games.

The real question is, what the establishment will do should the majority of the population indeed go after them.

Interestingly nothing of what I am saying now is / was discussed in the news but: While being outraged we send money to Greece (without legal base I may add) the German authorities passed a law that says: In case of national emergency, the available government may declare such (=martial law) and deploy the army (!!!!).

What does that mean and what are the implications. Well...should the available government (worst case the chancellor alone!!!) decide it is in the "best interest" of the public he/she can declare a national emergency which is nothing else but martial law. The german army is deployed to uphold "the law" Which is against our constitution (German army is supposed to fight invaders nothing else, except the county government ASKS the HIGH COMMAND for help in case of floodings and such). Secondly and potentially dangerous is that in case of national emergency the army is commanded by *drumroll* the chancellor.

Essentially it puts the person "on the trigger" in charge to declare to "pull the trigger".


I am sure you did not know that and if you did have not thought about the implications. It is a very dangerous place when your government starts deciding what is your best interest. Such government should and has been removed from office and not necessarily by elections.


Mentioning sending money to Greece without legal base. That legal base was cnstructed across Europe in record time AFTER the money was already in Greece! The last politician to legalise his crimes AFTER committing them was an Austrian private named Hitler. History sort of repeates itself  :-\

barbarian

The better in this is that Greece continues to buy planes and weapons to Germany and France.

Here in Italy, the worst is the price of fuel :
BENZINA (SERVITO)   1,826 â,¬
DIESEL (SERVITO)   1,758 â,¬
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Techno

Good grief.

Somewhere even more expensive than the UK....Bad enough over here.  :'( :'( :'(
Cheers - Phil

barbarian

Then compare the average income in Italy and UK...

Something around 15 K â,¬  a year is the media.
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Leon

Quote from: barbarian on 22 January 2013, 12:30:07 PM
Something around 15 K â,¬  a year is the media.

Woo hoo, a pay rise!

:'(
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sebigboss79

Quote from: barbarian on 22 January 2013, 11:42:39 AM
The better in this is that Greece continues to buy planes and weapons to Germany and France.

Here in Italy, the worst is the price of fuel :
BENZINA (SERVITO)   1,826 â,¬
DIESEL (SERVITO)   1,758 â,¬


But they ain't paying them!

barbarian

Quote from: Leon on 22 January 2013, 12:35:49 PM
Woo hoo, a pay rise!

:'(

I only know people who are paid 800-1000 â,¬ per month...for a full-time job.

A Middle school teacher is paid something like 1 300 â,¬.
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sebigboss79

Quote from: barbarian on 22 January 2013, 03:06:43 PM
I only know people who are paid 800-1000 â,¬ per month...for a full-time job.

A Middle school teacher is paid something like 1 300 â,¬.

But only untill those people refuse to work for that. Living on the dole DOES have advantages.