What are the French doing?

[Vulpine]

My New Years res was to become more informed on current news.

I don't blame my self, humans discover Higgs boson and its put on a mid page in the Newspapers, Katy Price talks about her sex life, page 1.

Any way, I believe (I could be wrong) France did not want any thing to do with Iraq or generally the War on Terror? So what are they doing in Africa, plane strikes, and French Speshial forces on a rescue...

I'm guessing the rescue is due to the fact that they were rescuing a French citizen, so they must already have involvement.

I was thinking, France did and still have a few colonies and this may be something to do with one or perhaps a Ex-Colonie that they still wish to look after?

Anyway, just seeing the French on the offensive is a change and I suppose its good. I quite like the French. They are my neighbour and as a neighbour I'd always lend them sugar, I might not invite them round for a meal but if I had a big party and other European country's (and defiantly America would be there, I can't have a party without inviting them) were coming, France would be there eating my hordeves.

Any way, just to cut my babbling I would like to know, just in case I'm put in charge of the country (or take charge by force)  what's France up to? Why are they? Are we going to help? Is something going to kick off on Africa (hope not we did that just over 100 years ago. We don't wanna do it again do we)? And if so do we have the cash?

Thanks in advance.

[Luddite]

Well...they haven't surrendered to anyone for a few years so i guess they thought it was about time?



Mali was an old French Colony until 1960 so i guess they maintain links through that.

The simple fact is this has been brewing for a few years now and in the last few weeks the Malian army lost control of most of the north of the country to the Islamic Ansar Dine, supposedly and 'Al Qaeda' splinter group, but more likely not.  They are however definitely fanatical Islamists attempting to institute Sharia and they've committed the usual litany of backward medieval brutality so far in their areas of control (public amputations, whippings and stoning of Malian loyalists and women).  Not sure if they're Wahabbist though, but there are rumours and reports that they may be Tuaregs displaced from Libya after the fall of Gadaffi.

The UN and the West African ECOWAS has sanctioned the involvement of African Troops and as i understand it troops from Niger and Burkina Faso are currently deploying to help stabilise the situation.  

However Ansar Dine captured the strategically vital northern city of Konna (with an army of 900 men in about 200 'technicals' vehicles) and the Malian leadership asked the French to help out.  As French citizens have also been captured by the Ansar Dine, i guess it made a good bit of political cover to come in and they've gone there 'to support the ECOWAS deployment'.  Apparently the French have asked the US to help out with drones but i'm not sure how that's been received.  Given the Islamist connection I suspect the US will pitch in behind the scenes.

Why are the French there?  
Well, in public they're making all the usual noises about not wanting a Fundamentalist Islamic regime right on Europe's doorstep, and also there appears to be some sort of domestic threat from Ansar Dine in France itself.  I don't read French well though so not sure on that.  Ansar Dine have about 12-15 French citizens held hostage, and France has a long history of alliance with the Malian Govt., having intervened militarily about two years ago to try and crush the emergent Ansar Dine back then.

As to their real reason (if different from that stated) who knows?  But they do have, as i understand, military deployed in Senegal, Burkina Faso and the Ivory Coast...and now Mali, so i guess France is interested in West Africa for some reason?

For me though, any resistance to the spread of Medieval Islamic barbarism is a good thing.  


This sort of 'bushfire' conflict is exactly what the Force on Force rules were written for!    http://ambushalleygames.com/products/store/product/show/cid-17/name-force-on-force/category_pathway-0

Oh...and that's a great New Year's Resolution old chap!   

[Steve J]

France has maintained close military and economic ties with its former Colonies, unlike the UK which severed pretty much all links at independence. There are lots of issues with regards to the stability of the sub-Saharan region in West Africa, including Niger which is having its own problems with Tuareg rebels. Nobody wants it to spread any further, especially into the economic areas closer to the coastal regions.

[Vulpine]

Oh...and that's a great New Year's Resolution old chap!  

Well I'll miss reading about Katy Prices next step in life and what Chardonnay 34DD/28/36 thinks of Climate change.  

Somehow I knew before I got a reply that it would be Mr Lud' who would post first. Ill also note (for the benifit of french members of the forum) that I did not say anything about 'surrendering' that was Lud'. Good points both of you.

I also agree, regardless of Religious views, that any fundamentalists that are 'abusing' there fellow man should be stopped. I'm talking groups or guys at the top like Sadam. Once again that's regardless of religion or If there communists, dictatorship or Democrac whatever just don't start killing people and we will all e fine. So if that's the state in West Africa so be it.

Also. A lot of people say 'we shouldn't get involed in the business of others' I agreed with that but... To late, we and the USA and Germany (and other European's and Russian sometimes, sometimes Canada and Japan and China etc) are involed now so that's that. Also we were involved the second we started spreading the British Empire infanct even before Richard the Lion hart. I'm sorry to the ones who disagree but I believe that most the problems in the Middle East and Africa are due to the fact we pulled out (technically shouldn't have been there in the first place) and just said, 'we don't want this land any more, you lot fight over who should be in charge, see ya'  and then we say, lots of fighting going on... Odd??

We and others have forged this world into the place it is, Africa, most  of Asia* (i include the USSR in the 'asia group), parts of South America (and the islands around South America) most of the Middle East, all caused by Europe (mainly France, Spain and England) (and the US, Canada, Austrailer and New Zealand who were part of the British empire, so it's there history also). So we need to sort it.


( * ) = Any problems in Northan Asia, that's Russians bag, they can sort that.

Also, good idia for a modem wargame. The re establishment of the British Empire, taking back Africa and the middle east, Germany taking Europe, we know your bullying Spain, like a little brother who needs to lend ten quid (well sixteen euros) and Russia taking back there ex states (Georgia wasn't that long ago) and America helping us (or is it the other way round).

[FierceKitty]

Strange ideas people have of medieval Islam. In those days, Islam was the most humane and enlightened system west of India. The brutality and stupidity are more recent developments. As, indeed, are some of the most ghastly practices in other ideologies.

[Vulpine]

Compared to others were they very civilised? Fair nuff, the reply probably is 'yes one of the most civilised'

However the fact is now that's no good. Also, as I said, it's not about Islam or any other religion, it's the way you treat your fellow man (or woman).

[sebigboss79]

Strange ideas people have of medieval Islam. In those days, Islam was the most humane and enlightened system west of India. The brutality and stupidity are more recent developments. As, indeed, are some of the most ghastly practices in other ideologies.

With Frederick II having Islamic advisors and scientists to advance Prussia I concur.

The problem, as I said 5 minutes earlier on another forum, is rather not the system (religious, ideological..) but more those people who abuse it. Communism as such would be the ideal rule for the world. If everybody was equal, all was well. Unfortunately some people are more equal than others and thats the problem in any system. Exceptions from the rule always weaken the rule.

We live post wikileaks and have developed a very hedonistic lifestyle, egoism taking its course. We have more demands than we have actual needs or abilities yet we pursue those demands in lieu of consideration for others.

The French still have a few interests in Sub Saharan Africa and are not shy of using force to get things "right". For example to counter piracy french ship sometimes carry a detachment of Legionairres. Now I think it was 2010 when some unfortunate pirates attempted to hijack one of those ships and the Foreign Legion sank them on the spot. Piracy against french vessels has declined since then.....

[Luddite]

Strange ideas people have of medieval Islam. In those days, Islam was the most humane and enlightened system west of India. The brutality and stupidity are more recent developments. As, indeed, are some of the most ghastly practices in other ideologies.

Nope.

You're perhaps referring to the Abbasid Caliphate of the 8th-13thC?  For sure this was a period of Enlightenment and learning where "the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr" but it most likely had more to do with Abbasid rather than Islamic culture and their desire to maintain and develop the Roman, Chinese, Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek, and Byzantine knowledge and wisdom.  And in any case during that period the apostate-related hadiths were still enacted with violent force and ultimately the central violence at the heart of the Koran exerted itself with the Sunni (Abbasid) and Shia 'civil war'.  I suppose the 13thC is 'more recent'?  But it represents 8 Centuries of Medeival brutality that continues into our world today.

Also, as I said, it's not about Islam or any other religion, it's the way you treat your fellow man (or woman).

Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.  â€" Stephen Weinberg

The problem, as I said 5 minutes earlier on another forum, is rather not the system (religious, ideological..) but more those people who abuse it.

I've never been keen on this apologist stance.  Sure humans are imperfect and will 'abuse' 'perfect' systems, but most systems are imperfect to start with.  In the religious context take:

Christianity - inherently immoral
At its heart is the basic tenet of vicarious redemption, that our 'sins' have been scapegoated upon Jesus' sacrifice.  This removes from us all the notion and requirement of personal responsibility upon which all morality is founded.

Islam - inherently violent
At the heart of the Koran is the requirement to kill all apostates.  This is the primary driver for jihadist expansionism and the Sunni/Shia civil war that is causing so much grief, war and suffering in today's world...including the current brutality in Mali that has drawn in the French.


Back on track though, interestingly i see this morning that the UK is going to provide transport, surveillance/intel, and logisitical support to the French mission there...something the French had asked the US to provide.  Some urgent back room phonecalls were presumably made over the weekend!

[FierceKitty]

I'm no apologist for any religion. I believe in cats, baroque music, frequent sex, espresso, and keeping a heavy cavalry reserve. I recognise minor deviations from this code have a reasonable right to exist.

[sebigboss79]

I'm no apologist for any religion. I believe in cats, baroque music, frequent sex, espresso, and keeping a heavy cavalry reserve. I recognise minor deviations from this code have a reasonable right to exist.

   

but lets be serious. Life and let life. Being reasonable sadly requires others to be moderately reasonable as well. Unfortunately reason is not something we have in abundance at this stage of times.

O tempora, o mores!

[barbarian]

"Our" uranium is in the north of Niger.
"We" have interests on the algerian gaz...

Do I need to say more ?

[nikharwood]

I'm no apologist for any religion. I believe in cats, baroque music, frequent sex, espresso, and keeping a heavy cavalry reserve. I recognise minor deviations from this code have a reasonable right to exist.

From Bull Durham:

Crash Davis: Well, I believe in the soul. The cock, the wimp, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days. [pause] Goodnight

[Hertsblue]

I'm no apologist for any religion. I believe in cats, baroque music, frequent sex, espresso, and keeping a heavy cavalry reserve. I recognise minor deviations from this code have a reasonable right to exist.

I believe in exactly the same things - apart from cats, baroque music and expresso.

However, to quote Dawkins - "question everything!".

[Vulpine]

I think we should be involved in other 'unstable' country's affairs... Not cuz we're sticking our neb in, just cuz it's our fault in the first place.

We invade,
We rule,
We leave,
We then arm them against someone els,
We leave again,
We find out there's oil,
We're back.

[Hertsblue]

Isn't that what the French have done in this case?