Pendraken Miniatures Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
24 November 2020, 09:38:57 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Libertad!, our Spanish Civil War supplement is now available!
310615 Posts in 18051 Topics by 2269 Members
Latest Member: BKC Grenadier
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Pendraken Miniatures Forum
|-+  Wider Wargaming
| |-+  Painting & Modelling (Moderator: nikharwood)
| | |-+  Advice on 10mm Undercoating
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Advice on 10mm Undercoating  (Read 7232 times)
sixsideddice
Colonel
*
Posts: 1103



WWW
« on: 20 May 2010, 11:42:40 AM »

Hi,

May I ask for a bit of advice please?

I am still a bit shaky painting these small fellows, but seeing all the great things you do with them inspires me endlessly. I`ll never be able to match anything like the amazing effects you all seem to be able to achieve, but I can but try.

Undercoating.... I always spray mine white, but I notice most the tips I see seem to go for black, is this because it helps shadowing, or is it acceptable to stick with my white - which helps my poor old eyes no end?

Cheers in advance,

Steve.
Logged

lentulus
Lieutenant Colonel
*
Posts: 877



« Reply #1 on: 20 May 2010, 12:59:12 PM »

I prime black because if I find some nook or cranny hard to get to it really does not matter, it just kind of disappears as a shadow.

I also dry brush with gray before I start serious painting to help clarify the detail.

"or is it acceptable to stick with my white"

Nope, sorry, the Painting branch of the Though Police will be by to pick up you figures  Grin
Logged
goat major
Colonel
*
Posts: 1112



WWW
« Reply #2 on: 20 May 2010, 01:14:12 PM »

Steve - there's no right or wrong answer and its down to personal taste.

Black offers some advantages in that (as Lentulus says) it fills in the gaps/crannies much better than white, it gives a nice definition between your colours. You can also use it for deep shade - though i prefer not to. The main disadvantage is that your colours will look less bright and in a smaller scale you probably want brighter. For the same reason you often need more than one coat to get proper colour coverage. It is also a bit more difficult to spot detail with black i find.

I switched from white to black a few years ago and generally wouldnt go back but there are probably as many people out there who would say the opposite.!

I would do some test figures and see how you get on.
Logged

My blog: http://simonspaintingblogandstuff.blogspot.com/
My twitting: http://twitter.com/goatmajor

2014 Painting Competition - Winner!
Captain Verbeek
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 127


« Reply #3 on: 20 May 2010, 01:17:55 PM »

I typically use a black undercoat as this allows you to leave the black inbetween your block colors and lets the fig "pop" per the Foundary, Kevin Dallimore Method.  However I have also base-coated black and immediately dry-brushed the entire model in a dark brown, this allows you to pick out the detail a bit, plus it sets up a nice base for the flesh, leather and wood which make up the majority of my figures.  For my Sudan stuff I have started base coating with a dark brown, I guess a natural evolution for me, it lets me skip a step with the brown dry-brush and I still leave it at the edges were colors are seperated and it works almost as well as black and everyone in the desert is a bit dusty anyway.  My 10mm painting tutorial shows the black/brown dry-brush technique

http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=86.0

link about half-way down this thread.

and a look at the brown undercoat up-close in this link.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Tz47CVXu2cc/S3odL4la80I/AAAAAAAAArQ/5MuzHUt0vHA/s1600-h/Brits+up-close.jpg

Logged

Non Cadmus
sixsideddice
Colonel
*
Posts: 1103



WWW
« Reply #4 on: 20 May 2010, 02:08:43 PM »

Nope, sorry, the Painting branch of the Though Police will be by to pick up you figures 

HAHA, I`ll have to set up a system of stooges to bang on the wall and warn me when the Police come to raid my collection of undercoated metals Smiley

Seriously, thanks guys.

I am aware that (on this small scale) a black might make the finished results look a wee bit dark, especially after inking; but I`m guessing a great many of the incredible photos of 10mm miniatures I`m seeing online are testimony to the fact this needn`t be a problem... if you have the skill to make the figures shine out, so to speak. But I do doubt my skills a bit I`m afraid, and probably with good reason  Undecided

However, I have been persuaded to chance black for a while simply because of the ability it will give me to mask the hard to get at bits, and may aid my inability to focus on creating the detail through a steady and confident hand and eye.

I`ll let you know how I get on, don`t laugh  Embarrassed

Steve
Logged

Captain Verbeek
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 127


« Reply #5 on: 20 May 2010, 02:16:34 PM »

don't worry, I have seen excellent results in 10mm with a black base coat and simply blocking in the main colors, shirts, pants flesh with no highlights, dry-brushing or shading just a nice base and mass.  If you have a 100 small Romans painted in block fashion it still looks amazing.
Logged

Non Cadmus
sixsideddice
Colonel
*
Posts: 1103



WWW
« Reply #6 on: 20 May 2010, 03:02:40 PM »

Thanks for the vote of confidence Captain Verbeek, I will endeavour to make them worthy of the table  Smiley

Yes, the mess effect can look stunning. However, I`m going for individual bases (round 1 cent coins) because I want that ECW & Monmouth Rebellion `individualisic` look you normally only associate with 28mm... and bigger... miniatures.

Lately, I`m attempting more and more to use my 10mm metal buddies just like I would their 28mm brothers and sisters; instead of the enmasse feel I often seem to encounter with this scale.

Actually, it was the link to the following thread which inspired me the most.

http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/2010/03/mordheim-using-whaa.html
Logged

MooseDontBounce
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 74


« Reply #7 on: 20 May 2010, 05:50:03 PM »

I've always like Tamyia Panzer Gray for my undercoat.  A little softer then black.
Logged
Sandinista
Brigadier
*
Posts: 1852


« Reply #8 on: 20 May 2010, 06:40:52 PM »

I tend to undercoat with whichever colour will predominate on finished figure
Logged

Zbigniew
Lieutenant
*
Posts: 201


« Reply #9 on: 20 May 2010, 09:47:02 PM »

I have found undercoating black most suitable for my style of painting. As someone said earlier do not make highlights in this scale. This only produce kind of a mess.
And I always use brighter shade of colour then adviced in uniform guides. For example I paint British redcoats almost orange shade of red. Ofcourse these are my findings after many failures and spending money on unnecessary amount of paints like 6 various shades of red  Smiley
Logged
clibinarium
Major
*
*
*
Posts: 635



« Reply #10 on: 20 May 2010, 11:44:02 PM »

If you go with a black undercoat, don't be afraid to go with bold colours to offset the darkening effect of the black. I tend to just use the paint thicker than I would with larger figures, my SYW Austrians were done in white with only one coat.
When I get time I am going to experiment with using grey undercoat for AWI french, washed with army painter to get black in the recesses. My first test with homemade wash was a bit too dirty looikng for my satisfaction; anyone else tried thi?

Highlights can work in 10mm, but they have to contrast more than those on bigger figures, and they have to be limited to the larger areas (say the coat or trousers only) and possibily the flesh to give definition to the face
Logged
nikharwood
Moderator
General
*
Posts: 7668



WWW
« Reply #11 on: 21 May 2010, 12:06:19 AM »

I'd agree - there's a need to be bold with 10mm...

I have to mention that Army Painter's 'dips' are no more than woodstain...you can save yourself a whole bunch of money by going to B&Q or Wilkinson's & getting a tin of their own-brand satin/matt woodstain...it'll cost you roughly 25% of what AP will cost you...no, really...

I always do highlights in 10mm - I think they work, even at the subtle end of the spectrum [eg camo schemes etc] - but I do tend to start a couple of tones lighter.
Logged

Captain Verbeek
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 127


« Reply #12 on: 21 May 2010, 12:14:51 AM »

I do not like dips on white, I would paint the dip into the recesses before I would dip the figs.  Again dark brown works pretty well as a base coat when painting white.  but Cil is a great painter so I would take his advice.
Logged

Non Cadmus
nikharwood
Moderator
General
*
Posts: 7668



WWW
« Reply #13 on: 21 May 2010, 12:39:41 AM »

Too right  Cool

I've not used 'dips' at all...just know that you can get 'em cheaper if that's what you want to do  Wink
Logged

clibinarium
Major
*
*
*
Posts: 635



« Reply #14 on: 21 May 2010, 01:07:49 AM »

The effect I am thinking of is something like what's seen in this pic;



(Pic is from Black Hat's shader page, by the way. Credit where credit's due)

The intent was to show the shader easily against the white undercoated figure, but it stuck me that it might work for French Infantry; the 1779 regulation uniform is very white. With this doing the shade, just hightlight white and paint in the colured bits; the black recesses of the shader giving the separation that the solid black undercoat usually would. I agreed painting on rather than dipping would be better.
The key would be getting the shader not to dirty the raise areas and be pretty slid in the recesses, combing the good points of black and white undercoats. The rightmost is too heavy (dirtying the raised parts) the leftmost a bit too weak. The middle one is almost right, but the worng colour (so not quite Goldilocks).
Maybe I'm asking too much of the idea?
« Last Edit: 21 May 2010, 01:10:45 AM by clibinarium » Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!