Overstuffed market?

Started by Luddite, 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AM

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paulr

One of the challenges of 'too many' rules is fragmentation of an already small hobby

This can make it challenging to agree on a game to play
I was thinking about going to our Nationals at Easter next year, not one period or rule set that I would consider playing on offer :(

It also spreads the wargaming dollar/pound/... very thin making it hard to fund enhancements to rules, lists etc

Of course none of the sets I play are in the too many category  ;) ;D
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fred.

Quote from: Dr Dave on 21 November 2017, 12:45:50 PM
If I popped into the supermarket for cereal they'd think me very odd if I complained about too much choice!  ;D

Yes but at breakfast time if you, and each member of your family has a different cereal, this isn't a problem. But if you and your 3 mates turn up to play a game each with a different ruleset then it is a problem.

Otherwise +1 to what Paul says.

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Dr Dave

Ahhhh, I see your point. The thing at our club is that generally players collect both sides and then put on their game and invite others to join in. Hence each person simply chooses their own cereal and gets everything. We are a club of megalomaniacs.

fred.

Aaah, a buy two boxes, and the bowels, setup the table and away you go.

While we sometimes do that, to get the boxes out on the table a second time, people need to like it and want to buy the rules and figures themselves, otherwise it just stagnates.

As a group Bolt Action has been 'agreed' as the WWII skirmish game of choice. This isn't really my thing on rules or scale. But frankly to get some big group games in I'll go for it. And Warlord certainly make it easy to get started. And this is the power of marketing. There are lots of gamers who want it all laid out in front of them - and I think this is largely to do with GW. In one way it stops discussion, of how you think something should be. On the other hand it just promotes endless 'well it wouldn't have worked in that way' discussions. With house rules, there is often the problem of too many cooks, not enough cutting, and no overall direction.

The problem still seems to be that I want Oatibix, Dave thinks he wants All Bran, but really wants Frosties, and John wants Aritsan Granola, while the other Dave wants Sugarcoated Space Aliens with extra Marshmallows. And Steve is in the corner with his non-lactose milk. Approximately.
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FierceKitty

Quote from: Dr Dave on 21 November 2017, 10:29:48 PM
Ahhhh, I see your point. The thing at our club is that generally players collect both sides and then put on their game and invite others to join in. Hence each person simply chooses their own cereal and gets everything. We are a club of megalomaniacs.

It's always seemed best to me to do it that way.
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Terry37

I agree with the original premise. But having said that one needs to understand that I am happily stuck solid in rules that were written and published 20+ years ago with only a very few tweaks, so really have no interest in all the new stuff coming out. What I see is a great focus on skirmish type gaming, which is OK, but is not for me. I agree there seems to be set after set after set popping up. Then I guess that why they make both chocolate and vanilla!

Terry
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Leman

I for one am glad this happens. About 10 years ago I was becoming very jaded with wargaming as, with the best will in the world, games seemed to be taking longer and becoming increasingly tedious to play. In 2009 a mate and I made a decision to each buy a Pendraken SYW army and play Minden Rose. This got me enthused again, but there were still a couple of fuzzy areas in these rules. Then I tried Black Powder, but it didn't do it for me. Finally Honours of War appeared. Brilliant, great fun excellent scenarios, understandable rules. The same happened with the ACW and FPW when BBB and Altar of Freedom came along. Other new rules have also got me interested again - Basic Impetus 2, Field of Battle 2, Square Bashing, To the Strongest, Baroque and the various books by Neil Thomas, none of which were around 20 years ago.
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Westmarcher

Quote from: Leman on 22 November 2017, 08:29:31 AM
... I was becoming very jaded with wargaming as, with the best will in the world, games seemed to be taking longer and becoming increasingly tedious to play.

I found that too. I used to be a "conflict specific" rules fan, thinking 'how can rules sets like WRG's 1685-1845 properly cover a couple of hundred years?' But when work commitments became more onerous and stressful, I didn't have the time or inclination to learn a whole load of different rules and all I wanted to do was turn up after work and have a game.  So, suddenly the benefits of a generic rule set became apparent. I bought Field of Battle and life became much simpler (FoB covers about 200 years). Not really needing another set of rules to learn, I resisted Black Powder for long enough but finally bought that set too and enjoyed it also (BP covers a similar era to FoB). The oldest of the two, FoB (1st Edition), was released in 2006(?) so whilst the market is overstuffed, I for one am glad it is because 'new releases' such as these have without a doubt extended my wargaming career.   

p.s. Am I exclusively a "generic era" exponent? Well, I was for a while ....then I 'regressed' and finally succumbed to the allure of Honours of War (SYW specific - but can be adapted to most 18th Century wars). As Leman says, easy to learn and great fun, and just another example over "over stuffing" being no bad thing.  :-[   
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FierceKitty

I thought any horse-and-musket other than SYW counted as unnecessarily stuffing the market?
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Leman

......and moving on, FOB2 is also a set I have used a lot over the last 6 or 7 years as I have found them to be a very enjoyable and relatively straightforward set for divisional level games, which, being card driven, are great for solo play. Furthermore the cards nicely summarise the rules they cover so reducing the need to refer back to the book. I have used them so far for Franco-Austrian, ACW, Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars, mainly with my opponent's 15mm armies. They are great for old style scenarios a la C S Grant.
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Obsidian23

Quote from: Sandinista on 09 August 2012, 12:32:07 PM
Having come back into the hobby 3 years or so ago after a 20 year gap I do think there are an awful lot of rules out there, most I've not played. It can be a little frustrating trying to find a set that most at the club are happy to play. I do wonder at times at the people who condemn a rule set as being unrealistic, what are they looking for? I have seen some rules with so many cross referenced charts I feel I need a maths degree to understand them. We were chatting in the bar after the games club last week and playing a game using WRG's 5th edition ancients was mooted, as all had said they enjoyed them back in the day.

Basically, all I am after is putting my toys on the table, moving them about a bit, having a bit of banter and a beer with my opponent and ending the evening wanting to do it all again

Bravo!  Bravo!   =D> =D> =D> =D>

I thought this is what miniature wargaming was all about.  This is why I do it.  I want to get together with like minded friends, throw some dice, move some soldiers around, cry at my double 1s, celebrate at my rare 6s and at the end of the night say what a great time it was and look forward to planning the next night.  Honestly if I am doing math to determine what I am doing then sorry, I didn't like it as a kid, not sure why I would like it as an adult.  gaming should be fun without being ridiculous! :-  I think!  roll some 6s........

Nick the Lemming

Quote from: FierceKitty on 22 November 2017, 10:35:20 AM
I thought any horse-and-musket other than SYW counted as unnecessarily stuffing the market?

No, that's Aztecs you're thinking of. :D

petercooman


d_Guy

I have never understood the animus toward Aztecs on this board. Is it feathers? The dragon glass weapons technology? The lack of wheeled vehicles? The human sacrifices? The unpronounceable gods?
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fred.

There is a definite trend to simplification of rules. And this is generally a good thing. But there is a fine line between simplification of rules and making a simple game. A good set of rules gives you decisions to make, and should reward the tactics and actions taken in the period. A ruleset needs to have that elusive 'feel' - and this a personal thing, and this makes it hard to get a group to agree.

This is where the big sets score, because they have lots of marketing and support, which helps people know about them and want to play them. And ease of getting a game in helps, you don't want every game to be an introductory game where you are having to help people learn the rules and their armies.  
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