Overstuffed market?

Started by Luddite, 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AM

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Paint it Pink

Quote from: Luddite on 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AM
It seems to me that, particularly over the past 3-4 years there's been an absolute glut of rules, for all periods, hitting the market. (snip)

So...ramblingly stumbling to my point, what do you chaps think? Are there too many rule-sets out there now?

That would rather depend on a definition of too many?  Choice is a good thing, but without knowledge of what you're choosing it can be very confusing, and therefore hard to make a choice.  I say this as an occasional reviewer of rules for MW&BG.
 
Quote from: Luddite on 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AMDo you buy rules only to never play them as they're basically inferior copies to other rules you've already done?

I have in the past, and will probably do so again, but it's never my intention to do so.  I read reviews and listen to what the word on the net is, and then decide.

Quote from: Luddite on 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AMIs it good there are so many rules being published?

See answer to question one.

Quote from: Luddite on 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AMHave you found any truly innovative rules lately?

Yes, pretty much all the rule-sets from TooFat Lardies meet this criteria, especially Charlie Don't Surf and Chain of Command.

Quote from: Luddite on 09 August 2012, 10:31:49 AMDo you think the current focus on gamist abstraction is good or bad?

Neither, abstraction is just a tool that provides a means to an end.
Unlike some people, I feel under no obligation to pretend that only one war-gaming scale is true, and that any others 6mm/10mm/15mm/25mm are mistaken; or that I know better than people themselves what is right for them to use. The point is precisely for all war-gamers to decide for themselves.

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http://ashleyrpollard.blogspot.co.uk/

Hamish

I try to ask myself 'what does this give me that is different to what I already have?' I'll happily buy several, say fantasy rules, if they are for different scales or play differently such as mass combat fantasy over skirmish. I do love rules though. Never Enough  :D

Leman

I play different scales with different rules in the same period and different rules with the same scale as well. An example is Dux Bellorum in 28mm and Dux Britanniarum in 10mm.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

FierceKitty

Quote from: Leman on 16 February 2015, 11:05:46 AM
I play different scales with different rules in the same period and different rules with the same scale as well. An example is Dux Bellorum in 28mm and Dux Britanniarum in 10mm.

Your genitives are showing!
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

Leman

Don't know what a genitive is, don't care (with thanks to Science Hill).
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zackzeta

Are there too many rulesets out there now?
might be just me but for fantasy i wish there was some more, there is some good ones though for big battle. however falls short in skirmish.

Do you buy rules only to never play them as they're basically inferior copies to other rules you've already done?
i think it depends on people around you more if you have no one around playing those set rules doesnt matter if theyre good or not.

Is it good there are so many rules being published?
as long as theyre of good quality i dont see no problem

Have you found any truly innovative rules lately?
not really i dont most game have very similar styles. the more unique ones are games like infinity which are more well crafted but require specific things

however i do wish there was a big great generic rule set. one for big battles, one for skirmish that way everyone can use what they wanted and it could be well crafted and popular i think kings of war has handled the generic big army rule set very well. dont think there's a good skirmisher though. i tried out open combat with a friend and it was short lived

Leman

Just been involved in a few days of cleaning, painting and clearing the wargames club. I have never seen so much fantasy and role-play stuff in all my days. Drawers and drawers of A4 books, hardback and softback; it just went on and on. Much of it was described as out of date. Some of it was ditched, but not a single historical rules set was binned.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

fsn

Quote from: zackzeta on 19 May 2016, 03:33:56 AM
Are there too many rulesets out there now?
Hell, yes.

This is both a weakness and a strength of the hobby.

If you look at chess, there is one set of rules (someone (probably FK) is going to tell me I'm wrong) so anyone in the world can play anyone else. This universality leads to homogeneity but IMHO is one of the reasons that chess an incredibly dull game. Doesn't even have the excitement of snakes and ladders.

Mornington Crescent, on the other hand, has so many variants that it would take a lifetime to learn them all. I personally am a fan of the Cutts-Lewis method, probably because I enjoy doubling back on stations, but there are so many variants of this game that is loved, not just in the UK, but around the world, that it would take a lifetime to learn the lot. This means that Mornington Crescent always has something to give, but it is difficult to get a good game with someone who knows your brand. The community is thinly spread.

Personally, I find learning rule sets tedious, and usually not worth the trouble.



Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
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fsn

Let me be a little bit incendiary.

I think that it would be entirely possible for there to be one set of rules for every period, every size of battle, from skirmish to BBBs.

Weapons go stab, crush or bang. Armour is resistant to these. People, horses, goblins and grav-tanks move at a certain speed. One model/base represents on person/squad/100 elves. As a hobby we sometimes get hung up about rule sets and base widths and forget that the important thing is not to paint green collars black.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

ffoulk

I'm in the camp that thinks there can never be enough rule sets.

I wish everybody would agree to a bloody base size though  :P

Paint it Pink

Quote from: fsn on 19 May 2016, 09:39:41 AM
Let me be a little bit incendiary.

I think that it would be entirely possible for there to be one set of rules for every period, every size of battle, from skirmish to BBBs.

Weapons go stab, crush or bang. Armour is resistant to these. People, horses, goblins and grav-tanks move at a certain speed. One model/base represents on person/squad/100 elves. As a hobby we sometimes get hung up about rule sets and base widths and forget that the important thing is not to paint green collars black.

Heretic, burn the witch...

But seriously, no.  Just no.

Because one set of rules to rule them all and in the darkness bind them would lead to the War of the Rules....

Sorry, distracted. Oh look, shiny.
Unlike some people, I feel under no obligation to pretend that only one war-gaming scale is true, and that any others 6mm/10mm/15mm/25mm are mistaken; or that I know better than people themselves what is right for them to use. The point is precisely for all war-gamers to decide for themselves.

http://panther6actual.blogspot.com/
http://ashleyrpollard.blogspot.co.uk/

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

We been stealing Nobbys pills sir ?

IanS
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
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fsn

But think, My Precious, one set of rules for all. They would go with your skirmish medievals, with your platoon level WWII, with your brigade level Napoleonics and with your full army LoA (including the command set of pensive Colonel, slightly ratted non-com and ensign who may just have stood in something) and one set would do them all. You could go into any club anywhere (except Aberystwyth, where they are wedded to their own ways) and pick up a game.

Humans is humans. Horses is horses. They have reacted pretty much the same way since the dawn of man. What's the real difference between a javelin thrown at naked tribesman and a Webley bullet fired at him? Distance and impact? And what is the difference between that tribesman's ability to move across grassland if his enemy is Alexander the Great or Lord Chelmsford? And does it matter to aforesaid naked tribesman if his flank is turned by light cavalry or light tanks?

Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

Ithoriel

The number of wargames rules sets required by the hobby as a whole is found by using the following formula

ITP x DGA x PSA x (TNW+1) / TWDI

Where ITP is Identifiable Time Periods, DGA is Distinct Geographical Areas, PSA is Possible Size of Actions, TNW is the Total Number of Wargamers and TWDI is Total of Wargamers Disposable Income

Since wargamers (and their spouses in the case of the last element) will never agree on values for any of these the required number is Infinity + 1 :)
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

Wulf

But, Milord Oik, you still have to consider scale. Skirmish? Tactical? Grand Tactical? Operational? Stategic? Stupidly Big?