10 mm rules for any period of warfare

[rexhurley]

Except those who play Flames of War.  They're wrong.

What's the make us who have written and playtested them?   

[Luddite]

What's the make us who have written and playtested them?   

Abominable.

Surely at some point during the writing/playtesting you actually woke up and realised 'hang on, this is rubbish isn't it'...

[Leon]

Abominable.

Surely at some point during the writing/playtesting you actually woke up and realised 'hang on, this is rubbish isn't it'...

That's a little strong I think?  I know that Rex (and at least one other member) were involved in the founding of Battlefront, and they have said in previous discussions that the way the company is now isn't what they had visions of.  Whether the rules have changed as much as the company, I don't know, but I doubt anyone deliberately puts out a bad set of rules, it's just that some sets are more Marmite than others.  FoW must be appealing to someone, or they wouldn't be as widely used as they are.

[barbarian]

Yeah.

But just copying WHK40k couldn't lead anywhere else.

[rexhurley]

Yeah.

But just copying WHK40k couldn't lead anywhere else.

I wont get into a slanging match but just a couple of points for all the baggers of FOW.

(a) I never have nor ever will play 40k (neither have most of the Kiwi development team or primary playtesters) so ain't copied, ...also why I have sold my Bolt Action rules as right from Mr Preistley's own voice think 40k V2 and you have Bolt Action...wish i had seen that rpeview before my pre order lols, thems the breaks eh..

(b) I made a lifestyle choice to join them at the time I did, $80k salary down to $30k move to most expensive city cost of living wise take non working wife and newborn along for the ride.....I enjoyed my time there and can say I did it....unlike many....how many of you would do that to follow a dream?....

(c) Many people worldwide have contributed and a small dedicated team has put it out there and made it a success, yes GW style with a lot of ex GW Manager's but hey the owner has fronted with a seven figure sum to put it on the map so he wanted results...to be the top selling historical flavoured (notice I say flavour here gents!) game in the world where anyone can walk in with a couple of hundred dollar outlay (not a grand like another established company) and begin to play from nothing....ten years on he has it and a return on his initial investment and patience as we (I was involved with the Dark Ages of Version One)/they grew and learnt.....interesting to see that some initial dream's of Peter's (i.e starter sets and plastics) are now finally coming to fruition and while I chose to leave for personal reasons after a six month stint I have to admire his persistence in seeing the dream through a lot of people would have walked away and left many customers isolated...how many times do you see that in the marketplace?... 

(d) The game now dominates numbers wise at most comp gaming events all round the globe so something must be right or why would so many people play it? 

(e) It's a game (notice I say a game!) that's intention is "i want my toys on the table, I want to push them around and make things go boom" it is not nor has ever intended to be a full on historical reinvention, flavoursome yes, enjoyed by a lot yes, hated by a few yes.

(f) So all in all I respect everyone's choice to play or not play, have an opinion or otherwise but please guys lets stop bagging it especially with unknown and unsubstantiated comments that are just hurtful, and respect the fact others may have a different viewpoint. 

Take care and have a great week, regards Rex 

[barbarian]

I apologise if I've hurted feelings.


On the other hand, being popular isn't an argument of validity of a set of rules.
I'm a grafic designer and really know that a good art on boxes or well studied packaging will sell.
Just don't know if bringing a market already existent ( 15mm miniatures for WWII plays) to popularity, justify that prices and these rules.
I must admit, if pricing were (really) cheaper, I would have consider buying some. But, that's what lead me to Pendraken...so thank you Battlefront. 

Your most relevant point is f)

[Luddite]

That's a little strong I think?  I know that Rex (and at least one other member) were involved in the founding of Battlefront, and they have said in previous discussions that the way the company is now isn't what they had visions of.  Whether the rules have changed as much as the company, I don't know, but I doubt anyone deliberately puts out a bad set of rules, it's just that some sets are more Marmite than others.  FoW must be appealing to someone, or they wouldn't be as widely used as they are.

You're right Leon.  I'll retract the 'abominable' and issue genuine apologies to Rex et. al.  No cause for personal venom; I didn't intend that and apologise for it now.

I will however stand by my contention (with the usual 'personal preference' caveat) that FoW is one of the worst rule sets ever released.  Not Mr Lincoln's War bad, but pretty bad.

Popularity doesn't equal quality.

[GordonY]

Agreed!!

Otherwise how do you account for that most cringe-worthy set of rules Warhammer 40k still being in existance.

[rexhurley]

  Lol's gentlemen and well said it's also a little bit why I had the pokey tongue emoticon out in my post up the top, all cool.

had to laugh last night was reviewing my copy of BKC II again and saw in the acknowledgement section's recognition of My Priestley and the lesser known Paul Goldstone, interesting must drop Paul a line as he is active with developing both sets (BKC II and FOW) which I didn't know.

Anyway's all good and yeh baby love Pendraken 10's the true scale for gaming (especially WWII) their service (first class and not matched by anyone IMO  ), nice models in all ranges that paint superbly well (now if I could just take decent well lit photos  ) and the ability to build nice terrain to match...now all we need is some decent rules and some mates to play!! 

Just as a matter of amusement, I hate the special rules, I hate the use of characters, I dislike the tendency to change the rules to suit "gamey aka read cheesy " players.......

BKC II concepts I like but have to re-educate the brain (I'm old you have to forgive me  ) also struggle with small bases representing a platoon.  Have thought about maybe going to 60mm squares for something different and making a platoon type of diorama per peice but not sure if that's viable given my current gaming environment, or maybe just using Spearhead scenarios with FOW orgs (wash my mouth out    ) or FOW orgs, or Rapid Fire orgs with BKC II rules, bah an overstuffed market and too much choice, too much time to analyse and think not enough to paint and game arggjh 

thoughts or should we start another thread?

Re rules for 10mm though I reckon anything can work you like and either use the larger base sizes, i.e. 28mm and put more on or do what i am where my main base size now is 30 x 20 x 2mm (8 foot, 4 modern foot or 4 cav) per base commands on 30mm circles and guns on 30 x 40mm with a view to turning up and instead od playing ona  big massive table being that one like at railway shows where you go oh ahh at all the large HO scale layouts but the one that also sticks in your brain is that sexy little marklin one with all the detail and spectacular scenery, catenary and setup, that for me is 10mm to a tee.

Have a great day everybody, regards Rex

[Rothgar68]

Ack! What's wrong with Mr Lincoln's War!? (besides being disorganized) I've found that it works well.

I've played 40K and FoW and now I don't play either. They are pretty much the same thing. I'm not buying any more rule books or codexs on a yearly basis for one game.

[rexhurley]

Found IABSM based on some other comments last night, read their intent and have an order of the way...might just be what I'm looking for...

Problem is the wallet is going to take a hammering all that other nice candy to...Bag a Hun, Kreigspiel (who would have thought), those maps and oh yeah....Pendraken toys to go with it  Leon you got your casting ladle in hand....

[Leon]

oh yeah....Pendraken toys to go with it  Leon you got your casting ladle in hand....

Ready and waiting!

[Last Hussar]

Rex - don't know where you are but I (and am sure Sunjester) will happily take you through a game of IABSM if you are near Aylesbury/Tring area.  It plays different to BKC - word of warning, don't get caught in the open at short range.

Also it can be cheap to do.  SJ and myself use 2 bases to a section, with 3 figs per base; our armies are based for other things.  Bases therefore represent 4 or 5 men, dependant on army, we mark hits with tiny dice, removing a base at 4 (or 5) hits.  However even if you go for 1 fig per man for a US army (10 man sections in the rules) you can get a company (the standard force) for £20 in 10mm.  You then throw the support in when you feel you want to. Word of warning - a US armored infantry company costs about £60, due to the 16 half tracks!

(Have just checked, a US army pack would work, assuming Leon keeps the ratio of BAR to rifles reasonable - £18, there you go.  Under £40 and you can get both sides.  Couple of hundred men - WW2 won't take as long to paint as other periods.  Go and buy them now.  I'll take my commision please Leon. )

[Leon]

Rex - don't know where you are but I (and am sure Sunjester) will happily take you through a game of IABSM if you are near Aylesbury/Tring area.

I'm not sure if it's possible to be further away from him... 

Go and buy them now.  I'll take my commision please Leon. )

Only if you ship them to him... 

[rexhurley]

Rex - don't know where you are but I (and am sure Sunjester) will happily take you through a game of IABSM if you are near Aylesbury/Tring area.  It plays different to BKC - word of warning, don't get caught in the open at short range.

Also it can be cheap to do.  SJ and myself use 2 bases to a section, with 3 figs per base; our armies are based for other things.  Bases therefore represent 4 or 5 men, dependant on army, we mark hits with tiny dice, removing a base at 4 (or 5) hits.  However even if you go for 1 fig per man for a US army (10 man sections in the rules) you can get a company (the standard force) for £20 in 10mm.  You then throw the support in when you feel you want to. Word of warning - a US armored infantry company costs about £60, due to the 16 half tracks!

(Have just checked, a US army pack would work, assuming Leon keeps the ratio of BAR to rifles reasonable - £18, there you go.  Under £40 and you can get both sides.  Couple of hundred men - WW2 won't take as long to paint as other periods.  Go and buy them now.  I'll take my commision please Leon. )

Bawaa would love to take you up on your kind offer, do you have spare $2500 NZD for my airfare 

Excellent sounds like a plan I have been/will be doing 3-4 men per base or one heavy support weapon so thats great means I can play IABSM or FOW (for the locals of course if they don't convert!), or BKC II cool.

Been chatting with Richard at lardies and apparently he has found some cards and token packs during some renovations so I'm snaffling some tonight, maybe he'll have some left if you want to hit him up.

And yup vehicles are always the killer but hey I'll only spend it on the wife or daughter if i don't so why not indulge 

As for painting umm in my time doing commissions or my own and selling them I have done (FOW) six full Soviet infnatry battaliosn with supports, a Lend Lease battaions, snotloads of t34's, 3 Full battalions (yes Battalions) of Germans with support, english and so on so yup know so quick anmd easy ways mate but hey SYW and Marlburians are quick to just need to know the cheats eh.  it's more being married with children and a 120km commute by car each way a day thats the time killer versus my days of being a shift worker, still i could always quit and live off the wife for a while