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Author Topic: May Releases!  (Read 24370 times)
Rob
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« Reply #30 on: 05 May 2012, 01:05:33 PM »

Martyn

I don't know about other forum members, but I find the comments regarding Pendraken customer service well off the mark.

I have found them to be nothing but supportive and to my mind go out of their way to meet customer requests.

As someone once said you cannot please all the people all the time and very few business can achieve that.

What did they not respond to?

As to the modellers, Leon has pointed out many times, many of them do not work exclusively for Pendraken nor in 10mm scale. They are all, I believe, self-employed and therefore are suppliers and not employees. In your business are you in charge of your suppliers?

Chad
 Sad

I would second this comment; as a seller Pendraken will be presented with potential products and will decide whether to take them or not. I presume they have input in  a general way on the ranges they would be interested in to give the designers a steer. If the resulting master is not good enough it will be rejected. An example of this is the Napoleonic infantry loading his musket which although he looked good had his musket (as pointed out by forum members) in the wrong position. We are still waiting for his replacement (Leon?), so the system is in place.

Having said all that the wheels on the master do look rather simple, but this may not be their final look.

Cheers, Rob  Smiley
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Derek H
Lieutenant
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Posts: 211



« Reply #31 on: 06 May 2012, 04:21:19 PM »

Well I will wait until I see the actual casting before judging.

I saw it at Carronade yesterday and it was fine. 
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Martyn
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 116


« Reply #32 on: 07 May 2012, 05:33:28 PM »

Well it was so predictable the responses so far. To answer a few questions that forum members have raised.
a) So what if the designer is freelance. If the product is not up to standard then it's not.
b) In my business I know my customers would not expect second best and I don't from my suppliers.
c) I ensure my suppliers have detailed specifications of what is required before placing an order. I don't know what Pendraken does?
d) I would like to thank one member for raising the quality of the wheels of the Panhard. Its the thing I find most offensive. NO detail.They are blobs of putty with a lop-sided "fried egg" on top.
e) As for cost: GHQ is £7.00 for five. Pendraken works our at £10.50 for 5.
f) GHQ work to a scale of 1/285th? 10mm is not a scale.

It's easy for me I will not buy as I don't like second best.

Compare the Panhard to the Augsburg figures. Now there is something nice and I will buy as soon as the cavalry and artillery have been produced.
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Leon
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« Reply #33 on: 08 May 2012, 02:17:26 AM »

I go away for one show, and it all kicks off...  Cheesy

Panhard Armoured Car

Is this a serious "master" it looks so shoddy? No detail. This is a backward step or was it just "banged out"to satisfy a few people on the Pendraken Forum? Come on Pendraken, look at what is being done in 6mm by GHQ. I did the Yom kippur Game at Salute using GHQ because Pendraken did not respond and the quality of GHQ is excellent. I realise that Pendraken forum members will condemn this heresy but I am a potential customer and I don't like what I see. I don't expect you to reconsider but if a company only listen to followers but customers then that company dies. ( The kings new clothes comes to mind)  Please raise your game on the detail side. Your in charge of your designers Huh???

I only expect negative response from the forum to this, but I run a business and I can't afford to be weak when a supplier delivers second rate. It's sent back.

First off, I think that's quite a strong reaction to a couple of pics of a master.  In real life the model looks fine, and the people who have seen the metal version at the shows so far haven't had any problems with it.  The actual vehicle itself didn't have much going on, so a 1:150th scale version isn't going to be covered in details.  The only thing I could see maybe being an issue is the wheels, but they don't look too bad on the castings.

As to the modellers, Leon has pointed out many times, many of them do not work exclusively for Pendraken nor in 10mm scale. They are all, I believe, self-employed and therefore are suppliers and not employees. In your business are you in charge of your suppliers?


The designer of this one is a full-time modeller/painter with his own business, and also designed our Char 2C, the Renault R35, the Protz trucks, and the Unic P107 also seen in this months releases.  As far as design spec goes, we tell him which vehicle we need, supply the scale drawings if needed, and away he goes.  That's the same for most of our vehicle designers.

Oh and by the way I think people who run businesses ought to invest in a little more customer service...

There happened to be an enthusiastic buyer of a certain company's rules who whilst visiting Salute and wanting to purchase some more spent a good while being ignored several times; as the purveyor was too busy shooting the breeze with a pal = no sale...  Wink

Now as we don't sell rules, I know this wasn't us, so you've got me intrigued now!

 Cheesy


An example of this is the Napoleonic infantry loading his musket which although he looked good had his musket (as pointed out by forum members) in the wrong position. We are still waiting for his replacement (Leon?), so the system is in place.

We've not replaced him yet, it's been put on the back burner.  I think we'll do a few variants once we get the bulk of the Wagram stuff done, but not one for every troop type.


Well it was so predictable the responses so far. To answer a few questions that forum members have raised.
a) So what if the designer is freelance. If the product is not up to standard then it's not.
b) In my business I know my customers would not expect second best and I don't from my suppliers.
c) I ensure my suppliers have detailed specifications of what is required before placing an order. I don't know what Pendraken does?
d) I would like to thank one member for raising the quality of the wheels of the Panhard. Its the thing I find most offensive. NO detail.They are blobs of putty with a lop-sided "fried egg" on top.
e) As for cost: GHQ is £7.00 for five. Pendraken works our at £10.50 for 5.
f) GHQ work to a scale of 1/285th? 10mm is not a scale.

I'm not sure how the GHQ price comparison fits in?  You can get them in 15mm at £30 for 5 as well?

The scale we work to is 1:150th, that's what we've used for a very long time now.  There is probably some slight variation to that in some vehicles where different designers have done them, but it's not much.

 Cool
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Luddite
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« Reply #34 on: 09 May 2012, 01:39:36 PM »

Well it was so predictable the responses so far.

Did you expect your hostile, antagonistic and rude post to illicit favourable responses?

 Shocked

To be honest, i'd say the esteemed forumites, and indeed our Pendraken overlord (all hail the 10mm god) has responded in a most polite and restrained way given the provocation!

 Wink

Quote
a) So what if the designer is freelance. If the product is not up to standard then it's not.

Ours is an amateur hobby in its truest, traditional sense.  Skilled freelancers abound, even among those eking a living out of our little lead toys.  Many 'freelancers' i've encountered actually push out higher quality than many of the so called 'professionals.  

However, if there's something not up to your personal standard, then may i suggest you take the sensible approach of not buying them?!  I find it works quite well for me, so i'd reccomend it to you.

Quote
b) In my business I know my customers would not expect second best and I don't from my suppliers.

That's an impressive and laudible business imperitive.  Wargaming products run the gamut, from 'cheap and cheerful' (i'm sure we all know who these chaps are) to 'its gorgeous, but are you kidding on the price tag?!?' (again, no names needed).

This is highly useful as it allows the customer (e.g. me) to make a decision about what quality i want and what i'm willing to pay.  

Therefore i would suggest that there's actually no such thing as 'second best' in the toy soldier market.  In most cases you get what you're willing to pay for.  Obviously, businesses want to dominate the market and most appear to strive to maximise their quality while minimising their price (although sometimes you wonder!  Grin )

I've found Pendraken generally gives good quality at great price, and with excellent customer service.  

How they deal with their, as far as i'm aware, 'contracted' designers is a mystery to me (and long may it remain so), but i think if you look at the recent 'upgrades' (Sci fi, AVBCW, Roma, Falklands, Napoleonics, etc., etc. they are definately doing something right!   Cheesy

Quote
c) I ensure my suppliers have detailed specifications of what is required before placing an order. I don't know what Pendraken does?

As i said, me neither...other than the fact that the designers are often on here, posting up WIPS for comment, positiive feedback, and improvement suggestions.  The Napoleonic chap with his odd reloading posture, the changes to the Roman range, the comments on the Falklands chaps, etc. show that Pendraken, its designers, and indeed its customers are engaged in a positive, successful design process that seems to produce stuff that people actually want to buy.

I'm struggling to think of another producer (toy soldier or otherwise) that does this?

Quote
d) I would like to thank one member for raising the quality of the wheels of the Panhard. Its the thing I find most offensive. NO detail.They are blobs of putty with a lop-sided "fried egg" on top.

'Offensive'?!?!?!

Good grief.  Are you sure?  

This offends you?

That's worrying.   Sad  You know its just a toy car right?

It also appears to be a master, and these things are always subject to change.  Those who've seen the metal product seem to be of the opinion its isn't quite so 'offensive'?

Quote
e) As for cost: GHQ is £7.00 for five. Pendraken works our at £10.50 for 5.

The only democracy in Capitalism is the power of the money vote.  If you can find what you like elsewhere for a price you prefer, well...we all make our consumer choices.  Personally, for overall quality/price/service i default to PEndraken.  

If they did 15mm, 20mm and 28mm figures too i'd never buy from another supplier...

That's my choice.  I certainly wouldn't complain to anyone about their pricing...if i think its over the odds i'll simply go elsewhere.  Even with the 'Evil Empire'....(damn those new Necrons are tempting... Angry ).   Grin

 
Quote
f) GHQ work to a scale of 1/285th? 10mm is not a scale.

Wait, what?!?!

10mm sir is the ONLY scale.  the scale against which all other scales are measured.  Admittedly its measured in 'new money', not proper Imperial, but you can't have everything...

Quote
It's easy for me I will not buy as I don't like second best.

I refer the honourable member to my previous comments...

Quote
Compare the Panhard to the Augsburg figures. Now there is something nice and I will buy as soon as the cavalry and artillery have been produced.

Ah yes...another great benefit of Pendraken...they strive for and often achieve comprehensive and complete ranges wherever possible  nothing worse than only being able to purchase half of what you need because its not been produced (yet).  Funnily enough there are a couple of projects i'm holding off on due to 'pending releases' (and other committments of course...will i EVER get these FPW French done?!?!   Cry  )...


Overall Martyn, i'd say constructive criticism is welcomed by everyone.  I'd suggest that might be a better approach to take in future.   Wink
« Last Edit: 09 May 2012, 01:44:48 PM by Luddite » Logged

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Chad
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« Reply #35 on: 09 May 2012, 04:41:53 PM »

Luddite

Excellent response.

I must admit that my intended response would probably have been somewhat less restrained than yours.

I managed to restrain myself however.  Lips Sealed

Chad
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Ben Waterhouse
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« Reply #36 on: 09 May 2012, 07:07:33 PM »

Bravo Luddite.
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mollinary
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Posts: 3131


« Reply #37 on: 09 May 2012, 07:40:15 PM »

Luddite.

Well done.  A perfectly moderated reponse.  I found Martin's tone particularly difficult to understand because Pendraken's approach to customer service, and input to the production process, is one which I do not see elsewhere in the hobby. There are plenty of good suppliers out there, offering us great service.  But Pendraken go the extra yard. On Martyn's particular comment on the Panhard, I would probably
agree that the wheels need some work, but why that prompted the diatribe I cannot guess.  Anyway, I remain a satisfied customer.

Mollinary
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mad lemmey
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« Reply #38 on: 09 May 2012, 09:22:26 PM »

Luddite,
 Applause
Thank you for a reasoned arguement
Mad Lemmey
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GordonY
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« Reply #39 on: 09 May 2012, 09:24:06 PM »

To be honest I found the tone a bit offensive, after all, if he doesnt like it I dont see a Pendraken sturmtrooper holding a Luger to his head forcing him to buy them.
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Gandalf
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 131



« Reply #40 on: 10 May 2012, 08:35:51 AM »

Top job Luddite.  You saved me from telling Martyn to wind his neck in!  Grin
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Have you seen the rivets on that?
Luddite
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« Reply #41 on: 10 May 2012, 03:52:48 PM »

Top job Luddite.  You saved me from telling Martyn to wind his neck in!  Grin

We'll call yours the précis !   Grin 
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"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
Squirrel
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« Reply #42 on: 10 May 2012, 09:03:20 PM »

It's a shame Martyn didn't make his comment on Frothers .... I could have had free rein to respond with the few choice words that first sprang to mind   Evil

Cheers,

Kev
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Martyn
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« Reply #43 on: 11 May 2012, 09:12:51 PM »

Thank you Leon for your reply and you are right all businesses are the same my apologies.

Congratulations Luddite you have proved my point. By the way 10mm is not a scale no mater how you might like phase it!
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Luddite
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« Reply #44 on: 12 May 2012, 09:51:27 AM »

Congratulations Luddite you have proved my point.

You were making a point?

Which point did i prove?

Quote
By the way 10mm is not a scale no mater how you might like phase it!

Really?

Scale

1.
a. A system of ordered marks at fixed intervals used as a reference standard in measurement: a ruler with scales in inches and centimeters.
b. An instrument or device bearing such marks.
c. A standard of measurement or judgment; a criterion.
2.
a. A proportion used in determining the dimensional relationship of a representation to that which it represents: a world map with a scale of 1:4,560,000.
b. A calibrated line, as on a map or an architectural plan, indicating such a proportion.
c. Proper proportion: a house that seemed out of scale with its surroundings.
3. A progressive classification, as of size, amount, importance, or rank: judging divers' performances on a scale of 1 to 10.
4. A relative level or degree: entertained on a lavish scale.
5. A minimum wage fixed by contract: musicians playing a benefit concert for scale.
6. Mathematics A system of notation in which the values of numerical expressions are determined by their places relative to the chosen base of the system: the decimal scale.
7. Music An ascending or descending collection of pitches proceeding by a specified scheme of intervals

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scale
« Last Edit: 12 May 2012, 09:57:18 AM by Luddite » Logged

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"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
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