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Author Topic: Attacking bunkers  (Read 3003 times)
pbeccas
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« Reply #30 on: 19 May 2021, 11:52:31 PM »

As someone posted above, keep it simple stupid.   

Leave the hard stuff for hex and counter games.  Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: 20 May 2021, 04:03:50 AM »

As someone posted above, keep it simple stupid.   

Leave the hard stuff for hex and counter games.  Cheesy

AMEN BROTHER
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Lord Speedy of Leighton
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« Reply #32 on: 20 May 2021, 06:58:10 AM »

What was the answer?
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Amra
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« Reply #33 on: 20 May 2021, 07:44:02 AM »

Haha ,i think the answer is there is a hole in the rules as written and its not covered so ,

I'm leaning towards a bunker is hit on 6s ,saves on 6s and takes 6 hits . I would leave hits on to represent the gradual degradation of a structure ( could also be a house )
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Big Insect
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« Reply #34 on: 20 May 2021, 07:44:32 AM »

What was the answer?

What was your question?

Bunkers are 6 to hit, saves on 6 and 6 hits, with hits coming off as per other units, the bunker cannot be suppressed, but occupants can
Or (if you want to play a game against a major bunker network) 3 to hit, save on a 3, 12 hits and hits stay on the bunker (not the occupants) .... but it all depends upon what bunker type you are wanting to depict.

The CWC house rule on Bunkers works well in BCK (IMHO)
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Amra
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« Reply #35 on: 20 May 2021, 07:55:43 AM »

Sure ,my question was where in the rules does it say how many hits a bunker/building takes and when they come off .

Please understand ,I'm a big fan of the rules and love the games they generate .I'm not try to denigrate your hard (& successful ) work .

This isn't a mission critical aspect of the rules , as many have posted we can always do a house rule . I just wanted to check I hadn't missed anything
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Big Insect
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« Reply #36 on: 20 May 2021, 08:04:42 AM »

The other thing missing from the Fortification section is 'Turret Bunkers' - to represent the use of tank turrets on top of small underground bunkers - as used by the Germans and Russians on the Eastern front (e.g. Mark IV turrets and T34 turrets etc)

My suggested house rules for these are:
Hit on a 5-6 for direct fire (LoS) and a 6 for Area Template (artillery or air) or LoF fire (on-table mortars or artillery) - due to lower profile and underground (added protection) but no +d:6 for flanks or rear shots.
Saves are always on a 3+ for shooting and a 4+ for assault.
They shoots at same factors as the original tank - but no +1 for under half range for AP (reduced or removed MGs)
Buy them at same cost as the original tank and they have same number of hits as the original tank.
They can be assaulted by infantry in same way as tank units but the infantry get a +1 d:6 in assault, representing the reduced vision for the 'Turret Bunker' crews (but they have no flanks or rears - so no additional d:6 for that)
They can be Suppressed as per 'normal' units. Units ignore any Fall-back results.

Hope that is helpful?
As stated elsewhere, I will look at producing a set of 'optional rules' as a PDF on Fortifications (but it will need to go to the back of the list after CWC, Korea, FWC)
Cheers
Mark



« Last Edit: 20 May 2021, 08:06:36 AM by Big Insect » Logged
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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« Reply #37 on: 20 May 2021, 08:51:36 AM »

Mark - WORK FASTER  Wink
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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« Reply #38 on: 20 May 2021, 10:03:01 AM »

The other thing missing from the Fortification section is 'Turret Bunkers' - to represent the use of tank turrets on top of small underground bunkers - as used by the Germans and Russians on the Eastern front (e.g. Mark IV turrets and T34 turrets etc)

Also obsolete Panzer II and Renault FT turrest used in Normandy, and there's at least one photo of a Panther turret in Berlin in '45, but that may be an improvised buried tank rather than a dedicated bunker.

For a real goodie, Austrått Fort in Norway - a turret off of the battlecruiser Gneisenau. Stunned to learn the thing weighs 800 tons!


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Lord Speedy of Leighton
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« Reply #39 on: 20 May 2021, 10:14:11 AM »

They also used panther turrets in Italy!
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Big Insect
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« Reply #40 on: 20 May 2021, 10:26:19 AM »

Also obsolete Panzer II and Renault FT turrets used in Normandy, and there's at least one photo of a Panther turret in Berlin in '45, but that may be an improvised buried tank rather than a dedicated bunker.
For a real goodie, Austrått Fort in Norway - a turret off of the battlecruiser Gneisenau. Stunned to learn the thing weighs 800 tons!

For the buried tank (Panther turret) - I'd use the same principle, as if they are a Turret Bunker

The battleship turret idea seems very Scandinavian - as the Danes had some as part of their Cold War coastal defenses on the Baltic coast; and of course we see something similar on the Greek island of Leros (immortalised by The Guns of Navarone novel by Alistair MacLean) with 6" naval guns in a bunker battery on-shore (but not ships turrets).
I think there are also/were some Greek Cold War turret bunkers on the Aegean islands, using old M24 Chaffee turrets.
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Steve J
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« Reply #41 on: 20 May 2021, 10:49:05 AM »

The Austrians used T-34, M-47, Charioteer and Centurion tank turrets as part of their Cold War Defences. Details in the link:

https://www.bunkermuseum.at/img/pdf/eng.pdf
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pbeccas
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« Reply #42 on: 20 May 2021, 01:19:08 PM »

Japanese caves anyone?
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Big Insect
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« Reply #43 on: 20 May 2021, 01:55:04 PM »

Japanese caves anyone?

I think the Allied/US tactic was to block off all the entrances, rather than go in fighting, if I remember correctly.
They were pretty impervious to any form of artillery or BB direct fire. Smoke might work, but overall I'd probably not recommend their inclusion in a BKC game.

Although I am sure you could use any variations on Dungeons & Dragons or even Space Hulk to play an engagement where troops were sent in to route the Japanese out.
That might be an interesting multi-player game - probably best with 20mm or 28mm figures though.
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Steve J
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« Reply #44 on: 20 May 2021, 02:35:55 PM »

I remember in one documentary the the US fired armoured piercing rounds at the wooden supports across the top of entrances, as this would cause them to break, thus collapsing the earth above and leading to the entrance being sealed. HE didn't have the same effect.
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