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Author Topic: Attacking bunkers  (Read 3036 times)
Amra
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 51


« on: 13 May 2021, 02:19:06 PM »

Hi All ,
Trying out pillboxes and bunker scenarios , so new questions 😀
1) A bunker buster capable gun fires on a bunker
        It hits on 6 ? How does it destroy the bunker? I canít find anything on the hits buildings,bunkers etc take
2) Firing on a pillbox
     Can I target it from all around ? I hit units inside on 6 ? When AFVs fire on the pillbox do they use AT or AP ?
Thanks
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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #1 on: 14 May 2021, 12:48:39 PM »

Hi Amra

From my understanding you donít actually target the bunker or pillbox.  You are targeting the unit inside.  So usually 6 to hit, and a 4+ to save in a bunker, or 5+ save in a pillbox.  You donít destroy the bunker.

When shooting at pillboxes you can only target the front firing arc and you are using AP because the target inside are infantry or a gun team.

Cold War Commander used to have some optional rules which allocated hits and saves to bunkers so you could destroy them.  Nothing stopping you using them in BKC.

light bunker 6 hits, saves on a 5+
medium bunker 9 hits, saves on a 4+
Hvy bunker 12 hits, saves on a 3+

I used to play a lot of BKC II and scanning the book,  the bunker rules in BKCIV do not appear any different. 

Hope that helps? 
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Big Insect
Colonel
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Posts: 1319


« Reply #2 on: 14 May 2021, 01:39:44 PM »

Hi there -I must have missed this post 1st time around.

pbeccas is correct in everything he states

By all means play an optional rule that allows you to target and potentially destroy the bunker itself. You will inflict casualties on the occupants/defenders at the same time.
I dont have a copy of BKCII to hand but I am sure some kind soul might post up the basics of how it worked.

Cheers
Mark
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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #3 on: 15 May 2021, 09:54:07 AM »

I dont have a copy of BKCII to hand but I am sure some kind soul might post up the basics of how it worked.
Mark

It was never in BKC II Mark.  They were optional rules in Cold War Commander.  Basically shoot at the bunker with AT, treat bunkers exactly the same as tanks with the roll save.  And we used to leave hits on otherwise you can never destroy them.  Troops inside never ran, and they died when the bunker blew up.  It was simple.
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Big Insect
Colonel
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Posts: 1319


« Reply #4 on: 15 May 2021, 10:44:53 AM »

It was never in BKC II Mark.  They were optional rules in Cold War Commander.  Basically shoot at the bunker with AT, treat bunkers exactly the same as tanks with the roll save.  And we used to leave hits on otherwise you can never destroy them.  Troops inside never ran, and they died when the bunker blew up.  It was simple.

Sounds like a very sensible option - thanks
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Amra
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 51


« Reply #5 on: 15 May 2021, 03:47:15 PM »

Um sorry but
The rules say
Special Ability
Bunker Buster ( p75) "Unit can target the bunker or building without having to target the unit inside "

Field Defenses (p62)
Hard Buildings " can be targeted by direct fire ...and be destroyed.(They) have both a hit and save of 6 against these attacks "

So I do target the building/bunker . How many hits does it take please ? I'm only using the BKCIV rules so a reference to where it is in there would be great

Thanks


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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #6 on: 16 May 2021, 12:32:48 AM »

The rules say
Special Ability
Bunker Buster ( p75) "Unit can target the bunker or building without having to target the unit inside "

There are no mention anywhere in the rules or optional rules with a hit number for any structure.  Thatís why I pointed to the Cold War Commander optional rules.


Field Defenses (p62)
Hard Buildings " can be targeted by direct fire ...and be destroyed.(They) have both a hit and save of 6 against these attacks "

Iím confused.  In my rule book on page 62 there is no mention of this at all in the field defence section?

In addition your first quote you said the special ability rules are on page 75?  They are on page 76 in my book?  Have we got the same rule book?  I only got mine a month ago.
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Itinerant Hobbyist
Playtester
Lieutenant
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Posts: 157



WWW
« Reply #7 on: 16 May 2021, 12:51:14 AM »

Paul,
I just downloaded my updated PDF and HARD buildings been added to the book. It was updated Mar 2020. It may also be in the errata...let me check.
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Itinerant Hobbyist
Playtester
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Posts: 157



WWW
« Reply #8 on: 16 May 2021, 12:56:25 AM »

Paul - these are all in the Errata - so you'll have the latest - https://pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/BKC-IVRulesErrataMar2020.pdf
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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #9 on: 16 May 2021, 12:56:48 AM »

I just went through all the army lists.  Only two weapon types have bunker busting ability.  The German 88 AA gun in its many formats.  And the Soviet 280mm M1939 Mortar.  
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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #10 on: 16 May 2021, 12:57:30 AM »

Paul - these are all in the Errata - so you'll have the latest - https://pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/BKC-IVRulesErrataMar2020.pdf

Sweet.  Thanks Todd.
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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #11 on: 16 May 2021, 01:08:40 AM »

So I do target the building/bunker . How many hits does it take please ? I'm only using the BKCIV rules so a reference to where it is in there would be great

After discovering extra rules 😜, thank Todd.

The answer is 6 hits.

ďHard Buildings have both a Hit and Save value of 6 against these attacks (other weapons have no significant effect), can be Suppressed but can never Fall-back. They have no Flanks or Rears.Ē
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Ithoriel
General
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Posts: 7940



« Reply #12 on: 16 May 2021, 02:10:46 AM »

After discovering extra rules 😜, thank Todd.

The answer is 6 hits.

ďHard Buildings have both a Hit and Save value of 6 against these attacks (other weapons have no significant effect), can be Suppressed but can never Fall-back. They have no Flanks or Rears.Ē

We read that as "6 to hit" and "6 to save" and have been allocating hit values according to the size of the structure. A concrete pill box and a D-Day style command bunker are very different propositions.
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pbeccas
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 56



« Reply #13 on: 16 May 2021, 03:30:52 AM »

Hitting a giant bunker wouldnít need just a 6?  Surely 4+?  They are huge.  And probably 3+ save?

Very strange rules?

Anyways, the real question.  Did  the Germans really use 88 Flak guns as bunker busters? 


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Amra
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 51


« Reply #14 on: 16 May 2021, 05:20:49 AM »

Ha now you see my problem !  Smiley

I read it that you need a 6 to hit the bunker , but maybe that's wrong .
I cant see anywhere that mentions different types of hard building targets ( different buildings or bunkers)
As many scenarios have these fortifications its important to work out I think

For what its worth , I'm playing Western Desert where the 88 was used in this role
It's weird the Brummbar doesn't have the capability as I thought that's what it was designed for....
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